In most marriages, there is a “higher drive spouse” (HDS) and a “lower drive spouse” (LDS). If this doesn’t apply to your marriage, you can safely disregard this post.
In most cases, the Husband is the HDS, and the wife is the LDS, but this is becoming more and more not the case. A great resource for wives who are the HDS, is “Spice & Love – A Higher Drive Wife”. Because of this, I’m going to avoid addressing the issue as just one applying to husbands, and address it in general.
In our marriage, we were pretty typical; for the first year or so, our sex drives were pretty well matched. Most times I initiated, and she was more often than not, very willing to go along.
Then came the kids, and all the “distractions” that come with both pregnancy, and taking care of the little life that is now your responsibility to feed, clothe, and diaper. It was during the 2nd and 3rd year of our marriage, when the bedroom started to be much more of a place to fall into bed and sleep, then a place to have fun together sexually. It took a lot of give on both sides, and keeping the lines of communication open, to get back to where we are today.
But knowing how it feels doesn’t do anybody any good, unless we use that knowledge to help our LDS (husband or wife) understand. That’s what it took in our marriage, to turn things around. My wife had no clue what sex meant to me, and how it was so much more than “just the act” to me, until I sat her down, and lovingly explained how I felt, and poured out my heart to her about the hurt I was feeling from her constant rejection sexually.
So that’s what I want to do with this post. I want to offer the LDS a peak inside the mind of their HDS spouse, without even having to get off the couch (or computer, or whatever you’re reading this thing on). 😉
Five things your “high drive spouse” may never tell you –
- It’s part of who we are – As a HDS we need sex and lots of physical touch to feel loved. What does this mean to you? Well, let’s say you do EVERYTHING you can think of for us, that YOU would think shows us that you love us (cooking meals, cleaning the house, working on the lawn, caring for the house, etc, etc, etc) – we will still not feel loved without you being sexually open to us. It just doesn’t work. It’s like trying to put everything BUT gas in a car to make it run. It’s not going to work. We CRAVE the sexual relationship with our spouse, and without it, we feel unloved, un-cared for, and un-important.
- We can’t just “turn it off” – I know as the LDS, it’s hard to understand this, but for us HD spouses, it’s a constant thing on our mind. It may not always be on the front burner, but it’s always there somewhere. Even if we just had sex, within a few hours, the thoughts like “I wonder when he/she’s going to want me again”, or “how long until I can convince him/her to love me like this again”, start to creep into our heads. We start to wonder if we’re “freaks” or if there is something wrong with us, because you seem to not (or very rarely) ever NEED it like we do. That’s why we get so frustrated when you exclaim things like “that’s all you ever think about” or “just turn it off!”, because we don’t know how, and it makes us angry that we can’t.
- The pain of “NO” becomes too hard to hear after a while – When a HDS asks their spouse for sex, it’s a HUGE thing to us. We usually have thought about asking, and what would be the best way, or what would go over the best, or what kind of mood you’re in, or how you may react – for a long time before we ask. It may have also taken us a while to get up the nerve to finally ask. So when we finally do, and you either brush it off, or roll your eyes, or give us a “oh come on, really?”, it hits us pretty deep. We of course don’t admit this most times, and try to make a half-hearted attempt at turning it into a “oh, it’s ok hon, if you’re not into it right now, don’t worry about it”, or something like that, but it hurts. We feel like we just put a very intimate part of ourselves out there, and you stomped on it. After a long period of “not tonight” responses, we tend to stop asking. Not because we don’t long to be with you, but because the pain of being rejected – yet again – hurts too much. To us it’s like burning your finger on a hot pan, and then going back the next day, and doing it again. After a while, it’s just worth it.
- We don’t expect you to be us, we just want you to be “naked and smiling” – We understand you don’t have the drive that we do. We understand you’re not going to be raring to go at all hours of the day and night. We get that, and we’re fine with it! What we’re trying to ask for, and most times do a lousy time explaining, is we just want you to ACCEPT us for who we are. We already feel like there’s something “wrong with us” for wanting to have it 3 or 4 times a week, and you constantly telling us to “go take a cold shower”, or rolling your eyes like “are you kidding me?” makes us feel that way even more. There was a time where I started to hate my sex drive. I even looked for ways to get rid of it. I thought “if I can just get rid of this, we’d never argue about anything!”. But what we found out is that God created ME to have that drive, and have the not-so-fun-job of being the one that makes sure we don’t go to long without sex, a that we keep that connection, that the LDS doesn’t realize they want/need as much/bad as the HDS, but just don’t have the feelings to do so, without a little “un-burying” of those thoughts from the pile of other things that may still be on your mind from the rest of the day. That’s why if you as the LDS could just make enough effort at the start, to be “naked and smiling”, even if you may not even feel like sex at the moment, you’re showing us that you care about us, and love us enough as our wife/husband to say “I don’t really need it right now, but I realize that you do, and I’m the only one that can legitimately meet this need for you, and so I’m not going to only do it, but smile while I do.” There’s nothing that drives a HDS more batty, and hurts him/her more, then when you are perfectly able (not sick, pregnant, headache, flu, etc) to meet our need, but refuse to do so for no reason. It feels like you are just dangling a treat in front of our nose, and then putting it back in the drawer and saying “nope, maybe tomorrow”. Ouch! And did I mention super frustrating to a HDS? We just need you to be ok with who we are. We need you to love who we are. We’re ok with you saying “honey, I love you and I’ll do whatever you need, but I just can’t get crazy into it tonight”. That still says “I love and accept you”. What hurts is the refusal to love us for who we are.
- Meeting a sexual need, doesn’t always mean intercourse – Please don’t misunderstand us here, if we’re asking for you to connect sexually with us, it doesn’t always have to mean full-blown intercourse. It can be as simple as rolling over with a smile on your face and saying “sounds like you need something taken care of” and helping us manually, or something to that effect. That does a TON for the HDS, when he/she is wanting to be intimate, but time/desire/energy just isn’t there at the time from the LDS. Don’t expect it to lessen the desire the next day to “fully connect” with you, but it goes a HUGE way in the heart of the HDS in showing him/her you love her, and understand his/her need – and while giving you some time to fully wrap your head around sex the next day.
Hey, you made it all the way to the end alive! Hopefully you’re not thinking you’re married to a complete wierdo after this, but instead have some sort of idea where your HDS is coming from.
What say you?
mission:husband 
Just as you say that the spouse with the high drive cannot just “turn it off”, did it ever occur to you that the spouse with the low drive cannot just “turn it on”? I hear what is being said about the high drive spouse needing to be shown that the lower drive spouse cares about them by showing up “naked and smiling”, but as a spouse with a lower drive, I also want to feel that there is not something wrong with me and to be accepted for who I am. My spouse has a higher drive and it is a constant struggle for us. He feels hurt if I am not “crazy into it”, and then I end up feeling like there is something wrong with me because of this. This issue flows both directions and I feel frustrated that the majority of the things that I read are directed at the lower drive spouse needing to meet the requests of the higher drive spouse. The lower drive spouse can also feel like there is something wrong with them because they are not able to keep with the needs and wants of their higher drive partner.
He’s going to have to get over you not always being “crazy into it”, and accept what you’re willing to give him, when you aren’t “in the mood” to begin with. Also, a secret for you, if you’re smiling, and rubbing his back while you’re doing it (or somehow showing him you are ok with it, and love him), he’ll be a lot less concerned about you being “crazy into it” EVERY time.
You both have different needs. the key is to find a middle ground where it’s a little “uncomfortable” for both of you, but you’re willing to do it, because you love each other.
I think the point Stephanie is trying to make is that there are a ridiculous amount of articles trying to convince the LDS that they need to just suck it up. But you never read anything (especially written by men) about how THEY need to just suck it up. How about an article that says, “When your LDS constantly and repeatedly rejects you, just put a smile on your face and tell them it’s OK. You understand. In fact, you probably shouldn’t even ask more than twice a month if you want your LDS to feel loved”.
Nicole,
Here’s the problem with that though – SEX brings a marriage together, NOT having sex tears it apart. Even the worst case LDS has a hard time arguing that after a good sexual encounter, they don’t feel closer together/connected/bonded to their spouse. Why do you think that is? How about because God created sex for that reason! It’s meant to be the “oil in the engine” that keeps the parts of the marriage moving properly.
So in otherwords, if a LDS is willing to work on it, and find a way to respond even a bit more, the marriage is better. If the HDS sucks it up and goes “oh well” and quits pursuing, the marriage becomes even more dead than it was, and it turns into an isolation for both partners. Doesn’t the first option sound more attractive?
Thanks for the comment!
This reply is out of whack, due to the reply set up on this blog.
“Here’s the problem with that though – SEX brings a marriage together, NOT having sex tears it apart. Even the worst case LDS has a hard time arguing that after a good sexual encounter, they don’t feel closer together/connected/bonded to their spouse.”
What on earth makes you say that? I’ve had sex when I wasn’t in the mood for it, because I knew it was important to my husband. It’s never made me feel closer to him. Mostly, it has no effect on *my* mental state at all. Sometimes, it makes me feel unloved and really crappy, and makes me wonder why I’m even in a relationship with someone who just wants to use my body. *That’s* what “I’m not into it, but I’ll do it for you” sex feels like – being used.
If I get into it after trying the “naked and smiling” thing, that’s great. But, if I don’t, I’m left with either calling a halt, because it’s not working (oops…”dangling a treat” again!) or having crappy, non-intimate sex with someone who supposedly loves me.
Who told you that the LDS feels together/connected/bonded after sex? And, who told you that “I’ll get naked and smile, even though I don’t want sex, because I love you” is the same thing as a “good sexual encounter”?
Apply the hds vs lds to ANY aspect of marriage. Hiking, conversation, date nights, dancing, whatever your Need as the hds and apply these principles. Would it be more loving for him to have deep thoughtful conversations with you or for you to accept him for being a brick wall? I don’t care what the issue is. I think accommodating the High Desire Spouse is the most loving thing for the relationship. Just because you don’t have that need doesn’t absolve you from meeting it. It’s through the action of overcoming the LDS to the HDS that we grow and help our spouse feel loved. That’s what marriage is about. Not excuses to be lazy
WELL PUT!!! Thank you for saying that!!! I feel the exact same way as I’m being steam rolled by endless rants about every aspect of my LDS’s day and every person they encountered and exactly what they think of them. Anything I say is ignored or twisted into an affront to them, so I generally silently listen to the hour plus rant that starts when he walks in and ends when decides to go sleep in an instant. I’m lucky if I get a hello…forget a kiss and hug! And if I laid a hand on him, his eyes would hug out of his head like “what in the hell is wrong with you?! You know better! It’s a work night! I’m tired! How dare you!” BUT! I listened to the endless venting where he talked at me for over an hour and never to me and couldn’t even actually respond. SO that’s my “be naked and smile”! DAILY!!!
And nothing kills me more than being the aggressor yet again as I have been for almost four years straight now without any reciprocity at all only to have my LDS lay there as I pleasure him fur an hour like I’m being lended his body…but I watch him have a damn blast!!! And then when you nudge that tomorrow is their turn you get “I’m really tired…thought we were just going to watch a show tonight…etc”…or WORSE! The passive comments that start the next day that you’re supposed to pick up on like “I haven’t had a solid night’s sleep all week…I can’t wait to just get back to sleep tonight…I really JUST want to watch this whole tv show.” Hint hint!!! You’re shot down before you ever asked AND YOU JUST PLEASURED THEM WHILE “THEY GRACED YOU WITH THE USE OF THEM”…but had plenty of enjoyment on their own and you got nothing for it. NOTHING.
DO YOU KNOW HOW AMAZING IT FEELS TO BE WANTED?! I need that feeling so badly it’s killing me right now…and driving me away after a third of our relationship for the last four years has been suddenly all on me with no interest from you at all.
Forget ever being “PLEASURED IN KIND”! Dream on! I’m sick of it. And then men wonder why they’d wife cheats? Because you already cheated on her …the instant you cut out that entire part of your marriage and didn’t care one bit EVEN THOUGH YOUR HDS HAS TRIED EVERYTHING TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND.
And I don’t care who you are, it’s worse when the HDS is the wife and the LDS the husband. It goes against everything we know and are taught and as a woman you feel completely worthless. I don’t think anything asside from domestic abuse can do so much damage to a woman’s entire concept of herself, self esteem, the meaning of her life and her role in the marriage and place in the world. And then you read the endless blogs and articles about “frigid wives” or worse the books about sex starved marriages where the responsibility is dumped squarely on the wife’s shoulders to “be sexy” and put in more effort. I’ve met him at the door dressed in lingerie, almost naked in heels, and still been turned down instantly.
The whole thing is enough to make woman insane…question everything…and finally think the only way to get what I need is to go outside the marriage. Men never seem to realize that for almost every frustrated and hurt HDS wife, there’s a list of guys who’ll be more than happy to provide what they won’t. Women are usually aware of the threat but guys don’t get it.
After a while, after you try and try, what’s left for you to do? As you keep listening to all of their needs and all their issues, endlessly! And feel used and forgotten more and more each day. And then once every month or so when they “lend you” their body and do nothing in return you just sink lower…
THANK YOU!!!!
Great post!
I would add that a sexual disconnection will always bring about an emotional disconnection. This is not something the HDS chooses, it is inevitable. You can fight that to some degree, but a lack of sex will always hurt how a man or woman feels about his or her spouse.
My husband is the HDS. But in my defense we have sex every-single-day and some times (most of the times) multiple times a day. Yet if for some reason I can’t, (because if I can, I do) I get a guilt trip. As much as we need to understand your needs, you need to understand ours. As much as we can bend to make you feel loved, you certainly can do the same for us. And personally, it’s a lot less work to have full on intercourse than to help manually.
THANK YOU!! I’m In The same boat with my husband. We have sex everyday (usually multiple times a day). I understand its his way if Expressing his feelings for me ,But its getting to the point wear I just lay there till he’s done… On the rare occasion when he does something sweet like bring me flowers Or coffee in bed, He ends up expecting a sexual reward for it. I’ve tried several times to talk to him about this and he just sits and mopes. Don’t get me wrong I love sex with my husband. Iwould be happy to get it down to 3 days a week. I need an emotional Arousal From him. Not just him pulling it Out of his pants and waving it around expecting that to turn me on FYI it doesn’t. We have no children, its our first year of Marriage, We’ve been together for Five years, And his libido was not this High until we were married. advice please ? As reasoning And talking to him about it or getting me nowhere.
Good article.
From the former LSD wife who never said no to her HSD spouse, I want to add something. Sometimes we need to know that you love us even with out the sex. Many of the things we do to show you that we love you, are the same things we need from you. We need for you to occasionally take on a job that we didn’t have to ask, beg or plead to be done. “(cooking meals, cleaning the house, working on the lawn, caring for the house, etc, etc, etc)” We need also need intimacy. We need to be touched at times when there is no pressure to perform. A quick should massage while we are washing dishes, an occasional foot rub when we are sitting down, holding hands, stroking hair. If the only time that we touch is when the HSD spouse wants to make love resentment will begin to build.
Exactly.
Married over three decades. I try to do ANY of these things (shoulder rubs, foot rubs etc) and the only response I always get is “always sexual touch with you, isn’t it?”
Funny, she never admitted a foot fetish though. HA!
So basically ANY touch is sexual touch to her. Absolutely NONE my way either.
“She doesn’t want to give me any ideas.”
Well why not? Otherwise whyball the waiting for all those years? Still waiting.
Been waiting longer, now, IN “marriage” than BEFORE “marriage”. How well do you think this has went down for someone who’s “love language” is physical touch? Or whose “ideal” is every other day, or less!
Marriage is a MISERABLE Hell-on-Earth! Until death do we part.
And… great post! Lol
I’ve been on both sides of this (two different marriages), and I did find it harder to be the HDS. However, this quote
” then when you are perfectly able (not sick, pregnant, headache, flu, etc) to meet our need, but refuse to do so for no reason. It feels like you are just dangling a treat in front of our nose,”
creeps me out. As the LDS, we’re not “dangling” anything. That’s putting the responsibility for *your* need to have sex squarely in our laps. And, also…knowing my spouse wants to have sex with me, even if I’m only doing it because he wants it, makes me feel completely *unloved* – like I’m a sex toy, not a wife.
There’s more I’ve thought of saying, but it will just become a rant. Suffice it to say that “be naked and smiling, even if you don’t want it, because using your body to get off, even if you don’t want it, makes me feel loved” is…kind of icky.
(Oh – and there have *always* been women who are the HDS. It’s just become more socially acceptable for them to admit it.)
Sorry, I didn’t mean to creep you out. I didn’t realize desiring a regular sexual relationship with your wife was creepy. My bad.
As far as the dangling part, to the HDS, it seems like sometimes you don’t really have a reason as to why you don’t want to have sex, but you still don’t. Even though you may still try and cuddle with us, or dress cute, or all that. That’s what I meant by “dangling”.
And I’m sorry if its icky for you to give your husband the gift of sex with you even though you may not “feel like it” at the time. Hopefully you don’t ever need him to do anything he doesn’t “feel” like.
Thanks for the comment!
Assuming that your spouse has no reason to refuse, and saying that they’re “dangling” something in front of you, is creepy. The LDS can’t help having all the parts, and isn’t necessarily *doing* anything to make you want sex. “Dangling a treat” has connotations of someone deliberately trying to work you up and leave you hanging and is disrespectful of your spouse.
As I said, I’ve been on both sides of this one. When I’m well, and reasonably well rested, I’m quite happy with sex about 4-5 times a week. My ex-husband was uninterested in sex for weeks, sometimes months, at a time. In the last year of our marriage, I had sex *once*. My current husband would prefer a minimum of once a day, and his ideal would be twice.
I’ve had sex with my husband more than once when I wasn’t necessarily in the mood for it at the beginning. I still don’t understand why anybody *wants* sex with someone who doesn’t want it, or how that has anything to do with showing love. I like sex. I like sex a lot. I don’t really like it with a partner who’s only doing it to show they love me.
I’m geniunely curious as to why someone would want the “gift” of sex when one’s partner isn’t in the mood, especially in an intimate relationship. I can see just wanting to get off in the world of one night stands and “hookups”, but…why would you want to have sex with someone you love, if they’re only doing it because you want it? That kind of sex isn’t great, and feels so unloving. (When I was the HDS, I got that a couple of times. It was awful. So, i’m genuinely curious about this.)
Your article made a wife sound like a prostitue that you’ve got on retainer.
Again, I’m sorry I’m creeping you out, I’m really not all that scary. If the spouse that is denying sex is crawling into bed nude, and being all cuddly, but then not wanting to go all they way, I’d say it’s a little dangley.
I’m glad you have a great sexual relationship and have sex 4 of 5 times a week. For the vast majority, this seems like a pipe dream. In fact, every survey I’ve ever conducted, says that the average is less than once a week.
As far as you wondering how sex has anything to do with showing love, to the HDS, this is 90% of how he/she feels love, so to them, it’s quite a big deal.
And I’m not sure how wanting to have a loving, sexual relationship with your wife more than a few times a month, makes me sound like my wife is a prostitute on retainer, but thanks for the amazing addition to the conversation. Not sure if it would have been the same without that one.
Thanks for the comment!
I have to reply in this same thread, as the reply comment engine only allows a certain amount of back and forth.
” If the spouse that is denying sex is crawling into bed nude, and being all cuddly, but then not wanting to go all they way, I’d say it’s a little dangley”
Ummm..I wouldn’t *ever* want to have sex with someone who thought that way. I *always* sleep nude, because I can’t get to sleep wearing PJs, nightgowns or anything like that. Cuddling has nothing to do with “going all the way”, because it’s not about sex. If my husband thought that every time I wanted affection, I was “dangling” a treat in his face, I’d feel iil.
If you can’t see why I think you sound like a wife is a prostitute on retainer, I don’t know how to explain it to you.
“As far as you wondering how sex has anything to do with showing love, to the HDS, this is 90% of how he/she feels love,”
This is the part I don’t get. I’ve *been* the HDS, and I don’t relate to this at all. (FWIW, I talked to my husband about this post, and he didn’t relate to a lot of what you had to say, either.) Sex and love *are* two different things, even though they frequently overlap. How can sex with someone who doesn’t *want* to have sex with you make you feel loved?
I don’t always have a 4-5 times a week sexual relationship (although I have, at many points, and know other peopel who do, as well). That would be my ideal, *if* I were well rested and healthy. I have chronic health issues and sleep issues, so we don’t hit that as often as either of us would like. But, the thing is…4-5 times a week is what *you* consider a great sexual relationship. But, a great sexual relationship is one that’s working for *both* of you. I have a good friend who hits about twice a month, and she and her husband are both very happy with that. I have another who has sex once a day, and wishes her husband wanted it more often. The latter couple has some degree of “HDS vs. LDS” dynamic going on, but the first couple doesn’t. Which one has a great sexual relationship?
Ahh…but domination, control, hurting your wife’s feeling because you enjoy doing to her the thing that hurts her, accusing her of lying, dismissing anything she says, and contempt are not loving acts.
You are supposed to be considerate of your spouse and using your sexuality to serve her, otherwise your kind of missing the point. There is no intimacy or union or love or respect and possibly not even consent when a man pressure his wife to lie to him and fake enjoyment becuade he doesn’t want to deal with her. You are what Dr Cloud and Dr Townsend would call a boundary resistant spouse.
That is a spouse who thinks he or she shouldn’t have to consider or respect the other spouse decisions, wishes or desires.
According to Dr Cloud and Dr. Townsend you are also squandering your wife’s treasures: her feelings among other things.
I’m the high drive spouse. I like sex 2-5 times a day without a child under 3 and 5-6 times a week with a baby.
However I do not like being manipulated, controlled, disrespected, dismissed or ignored. My sex drive is as strong as it ever was. My willingness to be intimate with a man who was clearly offended he had to deal (in other area of life) much as you as offended you have to interact with your wife to get her unwilling sexual compliance stopped.
Dr Gottman has some interesting research on divorce. The number one predictor is contmept. The contempt you have for your wife’s body, feelings, needs choices, and desires, and your wife in general is likely to go the same way.
It’s not sex drive. It’s the attitude that your wife is beneath you and you are owed the use of her without dealing with her, because you are married to her.
And spare me the lecture I have also been the frustrated high drive spouse. Once the high drive spouse gives up the power trip of expecting to control the lower drive spouse it’s just not that hard.
Yeah, I don’t “feel like” working 7-12’s supporting a SAHM who spends all day and night on Facebook instead of taking care of the children she HAD to have. Or the house, or pretty much anything. And before any of you start, I have done more CHOREPLAY, for NOTHING, than anyone should have to with a spouse that “couldn’t wait” to quit working and be a “traditional housewife”.
Well, she definitely got the “quit working” part down immediately. But the “traditional housewife” has been a work in progress for 3 decades now. I put no expectations on her in this either. Left it entirely up to her how she wanted to run her house. Basically, she wants “Martha Stewart” but wants me to do it after working 12 hour days and commuting an hour each way. Or spend all my time off “helping” her with housework she never even bothers to START! I mean, come on, Facebook!
I wish “church” would start looking under every rock for Facebook and emotional affairs like they do for Porn as the “be all end all” of marriage problems. Or refusing, gatekeeping and denying. I have heard “like Christ loved the church” rant at husbands at least once a month for almost 40 years. I have NEVER heard DO NOT DENY mentioned ONCE. Proverbs 31?
fagettaboutit.
I even gave her the out. If SAHM isn’t your thing, go back to work and we’ll hire somebody. Oh no, that would ruin her “image”. Then she couldn’t play the martyr. Or use it as an “excuse to refuse”.
As a HD wife, I can say that LDS don’t MEAN to “dangle” a treat in front of us. BUT you do. I am in the midst of this struggle and I can tell you that this article is spot on. How we (the HDS) feel about sex is hard to explain. You see it as just the act, where we don’t, we see it as something much, much more. I am attracted to my husband not only physically but more so because of the man he is, I am more “roaring” to go when he does something endearing, like helping our kids with something or playing a game with them, or doing house/yard work. I am more attracted to him because of who he is than just the physical. And for us HDS sex is a physical act that transcends in to emotional and spiritual bonding. For us it is an act that embodies all areas of intimacy (physical, emotional, spiritual). So something you see as “just using your body” we see as much much more. During some of my husband and I’s conversations about this I have told him if it was just the physical release I needed I could take care of that myself, and I could but for me the physical release isn’t the thing I crave most (I know this could be different for men because they do need that) it’s the connection that I want and I get that without the “release”. I can only speak as a HD wife and to me personally on this but on the very rare occasion that I don’t reach climax it’s not a big deal to me, because just by taking part in the act I got the connection I needed, that’s another thing my husband doesn’t get but I can leave feeling just as satisfied then as I do when I do “get to the top of the mountain”. And then there are the other acts of affection that LDS do, like a “pat on the rear” when passing in the kitchen, or even an intimate kiss, while we like that it only makes it worse and we end up thinking “if your not going to follow through just don’t do that” things that every couple does that normally wouldn’t be a trigger is for us because we crave that connection so much and we aren’t getting it enough that any little tiny connection just brings it to the fore front and makes us crave it more. And we want to feel wanted. I understand that my LDH won’t crave it as much as I do or think about it as much as I do BUT since he knows it is an issue and knows that I do pretty much constantly feel this way, I hate to put it this way but “just doing it” would show me he wants me and loves me. I could go on and on about how we HDS feel every day, especially today (it’s a bad day) but I really think if the LDS could understand how the HDS views, feels, and see’s sex they would be much more willing and maybe even “want” it more because it is not just the physical act we want, not by a long shot. Also Spiceandlove.wordpress.com isn’t blogging anymore, at least not for a while, she just posted saying she won’t be writing anymore. But for HD wives going through her old posts can help, it did me.
Thanks Jennifer for sharing your heart.
So you are wondering how an HDS husband feels about sex?
“…I have told him if it was just the physical release I needed I could take care of that myself, and I could but for me the physical release isn’t the thing I crave most (I know this could be different for men because they do need that) it’s the connection that I want and I get that without the “release”.
I am a husband and the HDS in our relationship. ALL of the things you have said about how HUD affects you are exactly how I feel. I have tried to explain this to my wife. It isn’t just about sex and the release of fluids and tension. Like you, I too could masturbate and achieve that, but I am also looking for more. During our sexual encounters, I am worshiping at her temple. I adore her body with all its curves, textures, tastes and smells. I love to lavish it and her with attention. I massage her feet and the rest or her body to help her relax (essential to good sex for a woman); I tell her it is not about intercourse or the orgasm but the pleasure; I tell her to lie back and enjoy it, get lost in it. I am in NO rush and she doesn’t have to worry about me finishing first of at all. Her pleasure is my pleasure. I find much joy in the giving. No inch of skin has been untouched by my hands or mouth. I once delivered 30 straight minutes of oral and loved every minute of it. I only stopped so she wouldn’t become desensitized and not be able to orgasm her usual multiples. I felt VERY connected and very fulfilled. Do I feel like sex all the time. No. It’s fair to say though, like most any man, it doesn’t take much effort to get me interested, unlike most women. But if she said “NOW!” I would say “Here?” or “Where?”, not “When?” I would do it out of my desire to please her and have a pleasurable connecting experience with her for myself. It wouldn’t even enter my mind that I was a piece of meat, a convenience, or simply a source for her selfish indulgence. If I think that, there are things amiss in our marriage that have nothing to do with sex.
Like your husband, being a creature in pursuit of an orgasm whenever possible, I too don’t get that a woman can take her lover all the way there and willingly deny herself and still feel satisfied about the sex. I have done this on occasion. I have told my wife tonight is all about you and it was, but only because after pleasing her I then took matters into my own hands. She enjoyed watching and I enjoyed her watching. So, in the end was it really ALL about her. That’s for her to decide.
The point being I think in a well functioning marriage, both parties give as good as they get. Some of us may be helpless, incorrigible over-achievers, but I can live with my “burden.” God, I love her so.
Jennifer,
You completely nailed it with this reply. This is exactly how it feels to be the HD wife. What’s especially hurtful is when it seems like all the men in the world would love to have a HD wife…but not the man who you love and desire the most. We are both young and attractive people and everyone thinks that we are hot and heavy and that is SO not the case. When strangers make googly eyes at me or stare it actually makes me sad because I can’t get that kind of reaction from the man that knows I would be a fun and erotic partner in bed. It makes me sick when women whose husbands want them SO much complain about it. I mean, how can it be a bad thing that your husband desires you??? It feels awful when he doesn’t.
This is excellent. Thank you, Jennifer.
Your HDS doesn’t like to be “lent the use of your body” as if you’re “a sex toy”. Like you doing them a favor by “letting them use you”. That’s totally demoralizing and miserable in it’s own right for your HDS.
I agree with Lisa68. Part of this article was a little “creepy” and made me (LDS) feel uncomfortable. My husband (HDS) has told me that being naked in front of him does make him feel like I’m dangling a treat in front of him so he will ask me to put on clothes as a favor to him and that part I completely understand.
But the part about “put on a smile” is just disgusting to me. I’ve always understood that sex was big for my partner, that he feels closer to me so I treat the situation with the attention it deserves, but he’s never okay with having sex with me if I’m not into it and knows I’m faking it. He would rather me be into it than do it at all. Will I let my partner start things even if i wasn’t into it at the beginning? Yes, but I let my partner know the things that help me get into the mood and he happily performs them, now does that mean even after that if I’m not into it he wants me to just smile and pretend? No! Never, because then it will feel empty at the end of it. And neither of us are satisfied because his goal in his sex drive is to feel wanted and pretending doesn’t make him feel wanted. There’s a way to give your partner what they want without feeling like you have to force yourself to pretend the whole time. And it’s the HDS responsibility to pay attention to the LDS and ask them what would make them feel more into it, not the LDS’ responsibility to just lay there and take it.
The things that were the biggest struggle to understand were that the sex drive was always on and the deep hurt that rejection caused. In combination, these two things meant that immediately after sex, my husband was already trying to steel himself for the next time–not the next sexual interlude, but the next rejection. I never got a calm, soothed, afterglowy husband until months after I’d stopped refusing. It took him that long to be able to trust that his sexual needs would be met by a naked and smiling wife.
(This is not a rant against you, but something I’ve been noticing as of late in many of the blogs I visit.)
Why is it so often it is assumed that the HDS just needs ‘more sex’ to be content? In my own marriage, the frequency can be basically whatever I want it to be because my wife is willing. BUT, it is the attitude that is the issue for me. Just laying there while we ‘have sex’, or being unwilling to try something new from time to time is very hard as well. A desire to want to make it better goes a long way to overcoming making it just ‘a numbers game’. I would rather have less sex if she was into it than all the robotic, impersonal sex she is willing to offer.
It isn’t just about accommodating, it is about relationship, interest and generosity.
While I don’t think that your LDS can offer screaming, clawing at your back sex every time (nor should you expect her to) I tried to address this point with the “smiling and naked” portion of the post.
I agree that sex with your wife if she’s giving you the stink eye the whole time, is not much better than no sex at all. Maybe it would be worth it to have a conversation with your wife and address this? What’s the worst that could happen?
Oh, I have addressed this with her! To no avail. Typically I get the response that “why can’t I just be content, the Bible says be content in all things”, or “its good for me, why can’t it be good for you?” So these conversations just create more tension between us. But its no so much ‘the stink eye’ as you put it, She is smiling and enjoys the closeness. She just feels no need to put forth any new effort or listen to my needs because “its good for me, why can’t it be good for you?”
As to the contentment issue, if I’m having a rough time at work or whatever, and we go without for, say a week, she is wanting/missing sex. So she isn’t content to be without for awhile, but if I want something more than “same ole’, same ole’ “, I’m not content??????? How do you say double standard?
“Screaming, clawing at your back sex” is not going to happen. Trust me. That would require her to be into it with more than just a “this is nice” state of mind. That would require her to be willing to let me spend some significant time in foreplay on her. That would require her to let go of control. That would require her to admit that an orgasm is OK to have (and actually desire). That would require her to actually focus on sexual sensations during the act (and maybe even prepare during the day). That would require her to vocalize to me what feels good to her rather than me just using a ‘shot gun’ approach hoping one of the things I try advances her arousal. (Need I go on???)
Eric, were we somehow married to the same woman?
Ditto that. And PREACH, brother! Because after 40 years I can promise you no “preacher” EVER will.
If you are describing your LDS as feeling like she’s not getting any if you’re “busy for a week” and then wants to go after you, CONSIDER YOURSELF IN HEAVEN!!! Talk to me when you beg for it and barely get the kid ten times a year and it’s all you all the time AND if you make no effort, your LDS will let months go by until you do and never make an advance on you! They could care less! If you don’t push, it dies t happen at all, ever. AND when it does happen, they lay there, obviously thinking that by “loaning you their body” for an hour you should be appeased, they reciprocate nothing but take in all the pleasure you’ll dish out. And they act like this was a favor. No interest in you, your needs. No feeling of attraction. NOTHING. AND YOU HAVE A “LDS” WHO GETS STEAMED IF THEY DONT GET ANY FOR WEEK?!?! I realize everyone is different, but that’s my dream come true.
HDH here. What you describe is EXACTLY my “marriage”, or 35 years now, to a LDW.
Who has told me “she LOVES having sex with me”. To which I once replied “Really, well could we LOVE that more than once every 2 or 3 months?” Her response is that I am never satisfied. Are we starting to see a pattern here at least, folks.
I have been trying to convince anyone who will listen that Christ-like love does not mean being FORCED to accept Christ-like CELIBACY. Otherwise why BOTHER with marriage AT ALL? And how is FORCED CELIBACY in any way supposed to help with our “lack of self-control”?
Crickets! Every time.
And who says you cannot “talk” naked! HA!
Wow. The vitriol in this post is beyond epic. I propose you turn the situation around. Lets say you asked your husband to come help you perform some task that you enjoyed and, despite not really wanting to, he put on a smile and helped. Whether he enjoys the experience fully or not, is not the fact that he put forth the effort, because he loves you and wants to spend time with you, something that would make you happy? Is that not the point, that we sometimes (SOMETIMES) put aside our wants, desires and aversions to bring happiness to the one we have dedicated our love and lives to? I mean, I don’t think we can expect a LDS to turn into a love machine every night, but the fact that they would put forth effort every once in a while means a lot. And who knows, the LDS may just find their attitude changing, with a little bit of LOVING effort.
Hey! I’ll be darned! There IS someone with a little common sense that reads this blog! I was begining to wonder…
Thanks for your comment, and YES, I think you have the right idea. 😉
I really don’t know what to say. On the one hand, you guys say that sex is the only way you can feel loved. On the other, you basically equate having sex when you don’t want to with…what? Going to a concert you don’t want to attend? Doing some work around the house? Sexual desire can be about the relatonship, but it can also be about the individual, and having sex when you *really* don’t want to is…gross. It can also have a really negative impact on how you feel about sex on other occasions.
Can you guys explain why it makes you feel loved to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you? This is the part I just don’t get. This isn’t sitting through a concert, or rewiring a toaster or rubbing some aching muscles. This is an extremely intimate act, layered with all kinds of emotional connotations, but you want the person you love to just do it, and smile…like it’s not different than putting new grout arond the bathtub, and singing while you work.
Also, this is NOT about HDS vs. LDS. This is about the way *some* people express their emotions and sexuality. This is about how you (and some others, obviously) feel about the role of sex in your *own* marriage. A “healthy” sex life doesn’t mean the same thing to everybody. And, having a high sex drive doesn’t mean that sex is the only way one feels loved – that’s how it works for *you*.
“And who knows, the LDS may just find their attitude changing, with a little bit of LOVING effort.”
I did find my attitude changing when I tried what you’re talking about. I went from someone who really, genuinely, enjoyed sex with my husband to somebody who dreaded it when he wanted to do so. I went from feeling as though I was involved in a loving sexual relationship to feeling as though I was a sex toy. My attempts to be “naked and smiling” ended up damaging our sex life for a while.
Tell me – if your wife tried, and found that she just wasn’t getting into it, and wanted to stop, would you honour that, or would that be “dangling a treat”? Would she even feel safe explaining to you that it wasn’t working? (I’m asking, because I can’t imagine feeling safe, sexually, with you or with the blog author.)
Absolutely sex is SO, SO, SO important in a marriage. I would be happy with having sex 3-5 times a week. But BECAUSE I understand the importance of sex and making sure my husband knows he is desired and loved, we usually come together once a day, and if he had it his way it would be multiple times a day. Having said that, why if we’re supposed to have sex so often did God create an LDS?
When I was pregnant this last time I completely LOST my drive. I thought that when women said they lost their drives, they really meant, “I’m just too lazy”, or “I’m not attracted to my husband”, but it’s a very, VERY real thing. The thought of sex was absolutely dreadful. I continued to have sex with my husband daily, but it created a huge wedge between us. I became bitter. I felt obligated to “put a smile on” and I felt like the acting was a lot of work.
And last but not least, I think the point I was making is that there is no two way street here. You never read anything encouraging men to be more understanding. If a man gets to have sex 2 or more times a week, he should shut his mouth and suck it up. Now a woman refusing sex but for a few times a month is not OK, either.
First, if you don’t have a high drive, I think your husband expecting it once a day isn’t right, or caring.
Second, as far as “nobody writing articles about the wives and sex”, you may want to look my post called “Sex, it’s not just about you”.
Thanks again for the comment…
Where do you draw the line? If she’s good with 3-5 times a week, why is it wrong for her husband to want every day? He obviously has a much higher drive than she does. This is *no* different than a HDS who wants it 3-5 times a week, with a spouse who only wants it 1/week (or less). The issue is the disparity, not the number.
At what point does expecting your spouse to have more sex than they want become “not right” or uncaring? What Nicole’s husband wants is *exactly* what you’re advising all LDS to do…have sex when they don’t want to, because that’s what the HDS wants/needs. The fact that her HDS is even more “H” than you doesn’t change the basic equation.
(Yeah- I’m posting here a lot. Eventually, I’ll probably give it up and move on. It seems to be a pattern of mine. So, don’t worry if you’re getting fed up with me. My interest in discussing/debating this will likely burn out soon.)
I draw the line at whatever is the “middle” for the couple. For example, if the HDS wants it every day, and the LDS wants it 2 times a week, then have it 4 times a week. It’s less than the HDS wants, and more than the LDS wants. It’s a compromise. Just like most things in marriage. It’s a giving of yourself for the good of the other person. Is that so bad?
So, what’s the midway point when you don’t want sex *at all* (this is not uncommon for pregnant women – it doesn’t affect all of us that way, but it’s not uncommon)? Once a day *is* the midpoint for Nicole and her husband, usually – she wants 3-5 times a week, and he wants multiple times a day. What’s the compromise when the thought of sex is “absolutely dreadful”?
In the middle.
What’s the middle? She has *no* drive, and wants *no* sex. He wants it multiple times a day. So…3-5 times a week? Every day? What’s the “middle” of zero and lots?
That was the scenario Nicole posted, and you came back with a comment about her spouse’s behaviour not being “right” and being uncaring. But, what *is* the middle, when the “LDS” is actually the “NDS” (No Drive Spouse)? She kept having sex and it had a negative impact on her marriage…something your original post pretty much states will not happen, btw. (I refer to this: “makes sure we don’t go to long without sex, a that we keep that connection, that the LDS doesn’t realize they want/need as much/bad as the HDS, but just don’t have the feelings to do so”.)
So, is it once a day (uncaring and “not right”, according to you)? Is it 3-4 times per week? Is it once a month? She had NO drive – sex is really, really unpleasant when your hormones and biology are saying “NO!”. (This is one that women have a really hard time getting across to men. You can have your sex, no matter how much our bodies don’t want it. That doesn’t happen in the other direction, because you have to have at least a certain degree of *physical* response or it simply won’t happen.) It’s almost impossible to believe that someone who loves you could *want* you to feel that way.
I’m lucky. I have trouble during the last few months of pregnancy (and am done having children, anyway), but my drive is normal for most of it, aside from the excessive fatigue. Some women aren’t wired that way. They simply have NO desire while pregnant.
“And last but not least, I think the point I was making is that there is no two way street here. You never read anything encouraging men to be more understanding. If a man gets to have sex 2 or more times a week, he should shut his mouth and suck it up. Now a woman refusing sex but for a few times a month is not OK, either.”
Nicole, I’m not sure what circles you move in, but my experience is 180 degrees from yours. I agree that there’s rarely a two-way street, but that’s because the overwhelming majority of material I see DOES tell the man “to be more understanding” and to “shut his mouth and suck it up.” There’s very little out there along the lines of what Mission:Husband is saying, which makes it a breath of fresh air. (And Mission:Husband is absolutely correct that most husbands would be delighted with 2 or more times a week. My wife couldn’t/wouldn’t agree to sex just 2 times a week for more than a 3-week stretch at a time. For most of our 29 years, our frequency was more like 1-2 times a month, at most. She made the exact same arguments you’re making.)
Here’s something that you and all of the other angry responders here are ignoring completely: if you’re married, you PROMISED to have sex with your spouse. You’re the only person your spouse is allowed to have sex with, and your spouse chose you as the one and only person he/she ever wanted to have sex with for the rest of his/her life. And you feel entitled to stomp on that desire? Or insist that he “shut his mouth and suck it up” when you unilaterally determine that he’s had enough for this week/month/year? If there are health issues, fine — work on getting them fixed or improved. If it’s emotional/psychological/relational, fine — work on getting it fixed or improved, with counseling, etc. You have absolutely no right — and in fact you are violating your sworn oath to God and to your spouse — to insist that you have the right to unilaterally gate-keep or refuse sex, or to resent the sex that occurs when you’re not in the mood.
Ditto. And sex isn’t just intercourse if that is the problem. We may all have individual preferences, but most of us will take what’s behind doors number 2, 3, or 4 if 1 is not currently an option. There are oral, manual, penis between breasts, thighs, labia and buttocks (not saying anal for all who find that option offensive or unhealthy) and other ways of creating sufficient penile friction to induce orgasm if intercourse is not a current option. And there is no real reason intercourse has to be the primary sexual function. More women, for instance, achieve orgasm through oral or manual stimulation of the clitoris than through intercourse to the tune of an at least 70% success rate. A lot of men find oral sex far more stimulating to the penis and more satisfying than PIV sex. I am not ignoring the different type of intimacy that PIV in various positions provides, just saying it is not the only satisfying way to have a sexual experience.
If your husband isn’t sensitive to your needs, that isn’t a reason to curtail or ration sex. It is a reason to begin talking to one another and resolving the issues between you. They may or may not resolve, or only partially so. At that point, you can have other conversations about the options left in the relationship. That’s the way mature adults handle their problems.
You think 3-5 times a week is LDS?! And daily is HDS?!?! What I wouldn’t have for your LDS, 3-5 times a week. Try ten times a year, and that’s only if you initiate AND then do everything and THEN they act like they did you a favor…but they get to finish and you work your fool head off every time. They lay there. And if you never initiate, it’ll go months, maybe even years.
I’ll take your sex life any day.
I’d take your 10 times a year…. Right now it’s once maybe twice a year with much guilt after and a noted resentment that that once happened. And the once is terrible because it gets the little brain thinking maybe we can try couple massage again or a counselor to help with what ever is limiting the pleasure for her or we can now start a conversation about how to change the intimacy thing. Hell at this point if we separated I wouldn’t know how to try and please someone with a normal drive. The rules don’t touch this, no oral, only mouths are for kissing… touch my shoulders or back nothing else…all the limitations I’ve been taught over the last 25 years would make me the LDS spouse for fear of messing things up with an Average Sexual Drive spouse. Yes I do think there must be an ADS somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes on discussion here.
@themarriagebed hit the nail on the head. emotional disconnection and sexual disconnection usually go hand in hand.
“But what we found out is that God created ME to have that drive, and have the not-so-fun-job of being the one that makes sure we don’t go to long without sex, a that we keep that connection, that the LDS doesn’t realize they want/need as much/bad as the HDS, but just don’t have the feelings to do so…..” YES! And on the flip side, my husband didn’t realize he needed emotional connection just as bad as me…..it took us years to get this all figured out. I’m still the LDS (or LSD..;)..).
and you know, I feel that the responsibility of progress is always with the slowest worker. Sexual progress was in my lap and emotional progress was in his.
Well said Pearl (oysterbed7)!
Not wanting or enjoying sex is contrary to how God made us. He designed us to want it and to enjoy it. Those who do not have been injured. This is not an angry accusation, but rather a sad fact. Attacking someone in the situation is like attacking someone with broken legs for not climbing stairs – who would do that?!
The problem is we have accepted the lie that some folks don’t have much of a sex drive, and that this is normal. It is common, but it is not normal function as God intended.
Thanks, Pearl, for all you area doing to help women understand the true, and work towards healing.
Wow. Are you actually serious?
Variances in sex drive are *real*. Variances in individual sex drives are *real* (eg. wanting it more or less during pregnancy, etc.). I’m starting to wonder if you’re more than 20 years old. (I know you say you have three kids, so the odds are that you’re older, but you’re coming across as someone very, very young.)
You don’t want to attack those poor people with the broken legs – you want to force them to climb the stairs, anyway!
At what point are people broken? Are they broken when they only want it once a month? Once a week? Once a day? Am I broken, because I on’y want it 4-5 times/week? My husband would like it 2-3 times a day, so I guess everybody who only wants it once a day is “injured”?
It’s funny. I *always* enjoyed and wanted sex – until I tried what you seem to think is the only path to real, loving marriage. (I enjoy it again, but it took some serious work.)
At first, I thought this was just about sex drives, but I’m beginning to think you just have no understanding that people are *different*. You actually think low sex drive is a condition that can be cured/healed by putting out, don’t you? Wow…just…wow.
Um, yeah, so I didn’t make that comment, The Marriage Bed blog did. Lol!
Whoops – sorry about that.
I’m homeschooling three kids, one of whom is on the autism spectrum, so my time is pretty chopped up. I get interrupted a lot while posting, so I miss things sometimes, even though I try to double (and triple) check…
Lisa68 – I said NOTHING about variance in sex drive. I said “Not wanting or enjoying sex is contrary to how God made us.” Not at all the same thing.
As to age, I am 52.
I think the core of the issue is the heart. We all want our hearts to be understood and loved by our spouses.It’s why this post was written, and it’s why those with lower drive need to be shown that they are loved for things beyond sex.
I’ve had many of the feelings expressed by some women commenting here. I remember the feelings. I had the same debates with my husband that I see emerging here. Every time we had these conversations (read, arguments), we ended up pushed further apart from each other–and in greater need of the support we could get only from each other. By focusing on the marriage rather than on his needs vs. my needs, we were able to grow and meet our emotional and sexual needs.
Gerad, I hope you don’t mind that I linked to this post on my own blog. It really got me thinking about how I used to feel and act in my marriage. You can take a peek at http://forgivenwife.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/sacred-cows/.
I appreciate that you’ve taken the time to share your heart with us. My husband made many of the same comments to me many times. It just took a while before my ears would hear and my heart would respond.
When both husband and wife let go of their selfish desires then a proper “middle” is found. I shouldn’t be so selfish as to continually ask my wife for sex at least once a day if I know she is having problems with once a week. I shouldn’t be so selfish as to withhold my body from my husband when once a week is far below what he is asking for. Both positions put husband and wife in bad positions.
Too much demand from the HDS will leave the LDS feeling like a piece of meat or a sex object.
Too little from the LDS opens the HDS to temptation from other sources.
If your spouse doesn’t want sex AT ALL for a prolonged period of time then I would say there are underlying issues that need to be dealt with (ie: previous abuse, hormones, medical, etc.).
If my wife tried and found she “just wasn’t getting into it” would I honor that? Absolutely. However, if it happened beyond three or four times I feel it would be an indicator of much deeper issues and would talk to her about getting to the root of said issues or even going in for counseling.
“(I’m asking, because I can’t imagine feeling safe, sexually, with you or with the blog author.)”
This statement alone indicates to me, Lisa68, that you are not interested in either learning or contributing to this topic, and are simply here trolling. I don’t see where, at any point, either myself or the blog author said anything remotely threatening, so your rapid descent into such a random and asinine statement tells me your simply here to pick a fight.
Thanks for the comment Snapper! I agree…
I think you feel attacked. I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think you show very much compassion for the LDS. And that’s why Lisa is getting on the defensive.
I don’t follow a lot of blogs, I just click on the ones I see with “marriage” and “sex” in the title. They’re never about the man being more understanding, lol.
I think this post would have been better and less off putting if the author had addressed some emotional needs that the LDS probably has, that are not being met and then offer some solutions so that both partners can feel comfortable compromising and not just one.
My husband has a history of being physically, mentally, verbally, and emotionally abusive. He has been sober for 3 years so the physical abuse has stopped, but old habits die hard and he’s continued being neglectful (at the least) of some very major needs of mine.One being female friendships (co-workers) that I think are inappropriate. It makes it very hard to want to have sex multiple times a day when my heart is daily being ripped out of my chest.
You’re right, the author is right, but both seem a little ignorant (true definition, not the one meant to be used as an insult) to what is really going on. More often than not, it’s a little deeper than just one not having as high a sex drive as the other. MEN need to understand how to ensure that we can comfortably get naked and smile (genuinely) even if it’s not the first thing we’d choose to be doing. Not just suck it up with a smile on our face because it’s the “right” thing to do.<- Although biblically that is what we should do.
If the blog post was addressed to the HDS about the LDS, I would have addressed the emotional needs, conversational needs, etc of the LDS, but it wasn’t written for the HDS. I was trying to give a little insight into the HDS world.
Obviously there are marriages where this wouldn’t fit right. It’s not a “one size fits all”. It’s just a “most sizes fit all”.
Thanks for the comment!
I’ve snipped some out, for brevity.
So, other sources – people you have no relationship with, can make you feel loved by providing you with sexual access? If this is all about feeling loved, then why would you go looking somewhere else?
Well, one of the things I was talking about was women who lose all sex drive when pregnant. There’s really no way to “deal with” that, except having the baby. It’s simply the biological reality for some women. In my case, when I didn’t want it at all (actually, I wanted it – I simply couldn’t enjoy it), it was due to nerve damage from a c-section. Fortunately for me, most of the damage was temporary. If it had been permanent, there would have been no way to “deal with it”.
If my wife tried and found she “just wasn’t getting into it” would I honor that? Absolutely. However, if it happened beyond three or four times I feel it would be an indicator of much deeper issues and would talk to her about getting to the root of said issues or even going in for counseling.
“(I’m asking, because I can’t imagine feeling safe, sexually, with you or with the blog author.)”
This statement alone indicates to me, Lisa68, that you are not interested in either learning or contributing to this topic, and are simply here trolling. I don’t see where, at any point, either myself or the blog author said anything remotely threatening, so your rapid descent into such a random and asinine statement tells me your simply here to pick a fight.
I’m not here to pick a fight, and I never said that either of you was being *threatening*. However, if I thought that my husband might respond to an honest, but unsuccessful (because it just wasn’t working) attempt to meet his needs with accusations of “dangling treats”, I wouldn’t feel sexually safe. There are emotional ramifications to sex for the LDS, too. My sexual/emotional safety would be seriously damaged if my husband referred to me as “dangling treats” in front of him, simply because I was naked and cuddly, but not up for sex. That whole dynamic smacks way too much of the “c***tease” slur that gets thrown at girls/women for all kinds of bizarre reasons.
Sometimes, the root of the “issue” is simply that feeling pressured to meet a quota, based on someone else’s sex drive, isn’t sexy. All the love and caring in the world won’t necessarily spark a sexual response. (And, yes – sometimes, it’s something else. It can be as simple as the “touched out” feeling of having a new baby. It can be past abuse. It can be hormonal. There are a lot of possibilities.)
Well, that, and the randomness of stuff about my “perfect” life and marriage. I’ve never claimed to have either.
I’m in my mid-40s. I’m on my second marriage. My first husband was emotionally abusive, addicted to crack cocaine (not when we got together – at the end of our 15 years), and came out of the closet several years after our breakup. He was the LDS in that marriage (not just because I was the wrong sex for him – he’s not very sexual at all). My current marriage has survived abdominal/pelvic nerve damage on my part, four pregnancies, four unwanted and traumatic c-sections (one of which didn’t save our child – he was born dead at term), as well as the other usual ups and downs of marriage. I consider myself VERY lucky to have such a wonderful man in my life, and have frequently started things when I wasn’t 100% in the mood, offered manual help, etc. He is clearly the HDS in this marriage.
My life is very far from perfect. My sex life, due to health issues, is a mess. However, I’ve been the HDS who is getting “because I love you” sex (not when he had NO drive, though – because he wouldn’t have been *able* to), and the HDS who is getting *no* sex (once in 10.5 months), and the LDS who is giving the “because I love you” sex, and the LDS who isn’t giving any sex (for many different reasons). I have an unusual perspective on this, because I’ve been in all four possible positions in the dynamic. What this has taught me is that *nobody* can speak for “the” HDS or LDS, because there’s more to a person than their sex drive, and one HDS isn’t necessarily coming from the same place as another one.
Hey all you salty LDS’s out there… If you didn’t want to have sex with the one person for the rest of your life, why get married and sentence them to life in prison without the possibility of parole? Marriage minus sex (barring extenuating circumstances) is no longer marriage. Sex(and the lesser included acts) is the only thing we can’t do with anyone else and depend on you for. With the sexual connection, I can take on the world. Without, I can’t even tie my shoes.
To all the HDS out there – if you just want a convenient sex toy, why did you get married? Put a prostitute on retainer. That’s all you seem to think a wife is for, anyway.
I want to have sex with dh. I can’t imagine marrying him if I didn’t. That doesn’t mean I want to have sex every time he’s in the mood, no matter how I feel about it. It also doesn’t mean I should be expected to be “naked and smiling”, no matter how I really feel about it, so that he can feel loved. You want an actress – hire one. You want intimacy, expect it to be a bit rocky.
Most of the HDS posting here are men. So, tell me – how would you feel if your spouse kept telling you that she felt rejected and unloved and as if you were “dangling treats” in her face when you came to bed…because you were suffering from erectile dysfunction? If you simply *couldn’t* have sex, how would it feel if your spouse kept trying to emotionally blackmail you into doing it, anyway? Women don’t have this happen, because we don’t have to be physically aroused for men to have sex with our bodies. That doesn’t mean the experience of having sex under those circumstances is pleasant, bonding, etc.
There’s an old joke about what women are thinking during sex. I can’t remember the details, but it’s something like the mistress is thinking “are you done already?”, and someone else (can’t remember the role) is thinking “aren’t you done yet?” and the wife is thinking, “beige – I think I’ll paint the ceiling beige.” Would that really make you feel loved?
Couldn’t is a whole different issue than won’t. Even so, other parts of me aren’t broken and consessions can be made. I’m not talking about every time I’m ready. But surely more than twice a month. I’m starting to think maybe I should have. But if she asks for anything sex or otherwise, if I am able, she gets it. Why is it to much to hope she would have the same attitude? She says stress from house messy, I clean the house. She says stress from dishes and cooking, she’s no longer welcome in the kitchen, I do it all. Still no improvement? What’s your excuse now?
But, you can’t judge what’s going on in someone else’s body. Women are, because of the way we’re made, and the nature of sex, always *able* to have sex. It might hurt, but we *can*. “Won’t” covers a lot of territory.
Have you ever been in the situation of not having any drive, and having someone want you to perform, anyway? If not, you have no idea what you’d do or how you’d handle it.
That’s arbitrary. You don’t know how often she wants it, so saying “surely more than X” is illogical. She may not want it at all, for whatever reason (physical, emotional, whatever).
I have, and need, no excuse. My sex life is fine. However, if you’re asking what your wife’s excuse is, then there’s a problem. It sounds like you have an emotional disconnect. I’m not there, and have no idea what’s causing it. Maybe she feels as though she only matters to you for sex. Maybe there’s something else going on between you. Maybe it’s something going on with her that has nothing to do with you. (In the past, my drive/interest has been negatively impacted by PTSD, hormonal issues around breastfeeding, etc.) But, if you’re framing it in term of “what’s her excuse”, then there’s an issue. Getting her to put out more often isn’t going to fix it, all by itself.
“To all the HDS out there – if you just want a convenient sex toy, why did you get married? Put a prostitute on retainer. That’s all you seem to think a wife is for, anyway.”
This is completely false. As any Bible believing and following Christian will tell you, sex is a huge covenant between a husband and wife. It is a full on 100% commitment that is not to be broken. The Bible even commands women and men to submit their bodies to their spouse, it is absolutely your responsibility to foster the needs of your spouse in this respect. It is a part of the lifetime pact and covenant you have formed with them. No Bible believing Christian could in good conscience spend their life having sex with prostitutes or random people, and, this is the key, have a fulfilling, happy, and healthy sex life. It is only, ONLY within the context of a monogamous marriage that one can do that. So to tell a man to have a sexually fulfilling life by filling his life with prostitutes is simply logically incoherent.
Now does this mean that the HDS can essentially rape the LDS whenever he/she wants? of course not. But both husband and wife must ALWAYS be cognizant of their partner’s own needs and desires. But the LDS must always remember that the commitment that the HDS has made to them, and that the LDS has made to the HDS, is a life long commitment, and it precludes their partner from fulfilling their basic sexual needs with someone other than their spouse. So when the LDS refuses the HDS out of their own indignant pride, and appealing to their right to be the keeper of their own body, my mind drifts to 1 Corinthians 7:4. “The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.” When we enter into marriage, we no longer have the authority over our own bodies – we relinquish this to our spouse. It is an integral part to actualizing the intention of marriage for us – to become one flesh.
So what does this verse really mean? Superficially, it definitely appears as though this gives the HDS the right to (essentially) rape the LDS. But when I read that verse, what I see is that while you are giving up the authority over your own body, you are becoming the steward of the one you most care about, and have bound your life to. You are now responsible for the well being and flourishing of your partner’s body. You are the one to take care of it and give it what it needs. And in doing this, you grow deeper in your love for eachother, and deeper in your love with God as you honor the gift of marriage and sex that He has given us. This means not only is it the LDS’s responsibility to help take care of the HDS’s higher sexual appetite, but it also means it is the HDS’s responsibility to be cognizant of the LDS’s lower appetite, and take care of their body as well. This is why (i think) missionhusband’s focus was so much on compromise – because that is exactly what the implication of that Biblical verse is.
I agree and disagree. Even when I was the HDS, I wanted to be loved for things beyond sex. I wouldn’t even consider marrying someone if 80%-90% of their ability to show love was about having sex with me. That pretty much says that if something happens to the other partner that causes them to be unable to enjoy sex (such as when I experienced the surgical nerve damage), the love is 80%-90% *gone*. Marriage isn’t just sex.
@Nicole:
“I think the point Stephanie is trying to make is that there are a ridiculous amount of articles trying to convince the LDS that they need to just suck it up.”
I don’t know where you read articles, but these boards (themarriagebed.com , ForgivenWife and this one) are the only boards, I have ever seen, recognizing that refused husbands are also human beings deserving respect and understanding. The message I have read everywhere else over my 27 years as a refused husband is “just suck it up!”
@ Lisa68:
Your description of sex is (as far as I remember :-)) 100 percent true:
“This is an extremely intimate act, layered with all kinds of emotional connotations”
And, Lisa68, that’s exactly the reason that a husband doesn’t fell loved at all if his wife won’t share this act with him! It hurts incredibly!
@Lisa68:
“Can you guys explain why it makes you feel loved to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you?”
No, I don’t think I can feel loved by having sex with someone who doesn’t WANT to have sex with me. That’s why I desperately hope that my wife will change her mind, and decide that she WANTS to have sex with me, because I can certainly not feel loved by someone who WON’T have sex with me.
@Lisa68:
“So, what’s the midway point when you don’t want sex *at all* (this is not uncommon for pregnant women – it doesn’t affect all of us that way, but it’s not uncommon)? … What’s the compromise when the thought of sex is “absolutely dreadful?”
A story from real life:
– 27 years ago my wife got pregnant and she didn’t want sex at all. Under those circumstances I couldn’t dream of blaming her, so I just waited …
– Our daughter was born so now my wife was breastfeeding for several months, and she didn’t want sex at all. Under those circumstances I couldn’t dream of blaming her, so I just waited …
– After breastfeeding she got an after birth depression, and she didn’t want sex at all. Under those circumstances I couldn’t dream of blaming her, so I just waited …
Slowly (over a year or so) she recovered, and she didn’t want sex at all. Under those circumstances I couldn’t dream of blaming her, so I just waited …
When do you think it will be fair to ask her about some kind of compromise? After 30 years (only three years left :-)), after 35 years :-|, after 40 years 😦 ?
Or is your advice that I should just suck it up until I die?
Lisa, you are in desperate need of counseling. You obviously have issues that cannot be solved or helped by anyone on here. I can’t believe you people (wife or husband) who don’t want to have sex with your spouse. Get divorced and let both of you move on. I can’t fathom being married to someone and NOT WANT to have sex with them. That’s not love. It’s a different story if there’s a physical reason why you CAN’T. But NOT WANTING to… Get to a doctor and/or therapist to find out what the problem is and work to resolve it or just cut them loose and move on. Neither party should be tortured. I speak from experience. 25 year marriage with no sex for 22 of those.
Frankly I doubt I could preform with a prostitute – for me sex is deeply relational. I have a great relationship with my wife, in many, many ways, INCLUDING but not limited to sex. Sex without the rest of the relationship would hold no appeal for me. On the other hand, the better the relationship gets, the more I desire her sexually.
Not being able to have an erection does not mean you can’t have sex. Frankly I feel I am to provide my wife with all the sex she wants, regardless of what I want. When I was younger I always wanted it, so saying I would be there for her regardless was just words. However, I the last half decade there have been a few times when she wanted it and I would have been perfectly happy to wait to the next day. However, I went ahead and did it for her (and enjoyed it along the way). If she ever wants it and I can’t get an erection, or otherwise can’t have intercourse, I will still do something for her.
I’m sorry for your anger, and the hurt which must be behind it. I understand why you are making sweeping accusations against men, but your words are unfair to many decent guys.
You have no clue what you’re talking about. The vast majority of sexual hurt I’ve experienced has been due to constant rejection by my low drive first husband. When a man says that “80% – 90%” of how he shows and feels love is through sex, he reduces his wife to very little more than a sex partner, and marriage is SO much more than sex.
My posts here have been in response to the comments and viewpoints put forth by you, the blog author and another poster. They haven’t been about my general reaction to guys – not at all.
Being perfectly happy to wait until the next day is not even in the same universe as being *completely* not into it – no drive, no interest.
Lisa – Who said “80% – 90%” of how he shows and feels love is through sex? I see “how he feels” but not “how he shows. I don’t think it is really 90% of how anyone should feel love, but when it feels like something is being metered out with an eye dropper it is natural to become over focused on that.
My desire is to give my wife things that make her feel good – regardless of what that is or how I feel about doing that. This applies to sex and everything else. When I married her I was promising to give her my best, and that is what I try to do every day.
In my mind it is exceptionally selfish for a man or woman to say “I don’t care that you feel a need for sex, we are not doing it until/unless I want it.” The same applies to wanting to talk, to snuggle, to go for a walk, and pretty much anything else that is physically possible.
I was referring to this comment by the blog author: “As far as you wondering how sex has anything to do with showing love, to the HDS, this is 90% of how he/she feels love”. He specifically said that’s 90% of how he feels love, but the sentence was also about showing love – I sem to have somewhat misremembered it in my later replies. In any case, I find the concept incredibly demeaning – if 90% of how my spouse *felt* love for me was by having sex (whether I wanted to or not!), it would mean that we define love so differently that our marriage is a farce. I actually get the idea of that being 90% of how one shows love better than that. I mean…does that mean that if one’s spouse becomes incapable of sex (eg. through an accident or injury), you don’t love them, anymore?
My desire is to give my wife things that make her feel good – regardless of what that is or how I feel about doing that. This applies to sex and everything else. When I married her I was promising to give her my best, and that is what I try to do every day.
In my mind it is exceptionally selfish for a man or woman to say “I don’t care that you feel a need for sex, we are not doing it until/unless I want it.” The same applies to wanting to talk, to snuggle, to go for a walk, and pretty much anything else that is physically possible.
Fair enough. In my mind, it’s also exceptionally selfish to say “I don’t care that the idea of sex is repulsive to you right now – I want to get my rocks off, and your body is available”. Being guilted into sex – let alone “naked and *smiling*” sex is grotesque. And, if you can’t see the differences between sex and talking, snuggling or going for a walk, then this whole blog makes no sense at all.
Again – if you love someone, why do you want to have sex when they don’t want to? I’ve asked this several times, and nobody has answered it. What’s the appeal?
There are lots of mental/emotional places where sex can start for the LDS (or for the HDS, for that matter, but the nature of the HDS/LDS dynamic makes that mostly irrelevant). There’s “really into it right now – let’s go!”. There’s “not really into it, but not opposed – sure, let’s go!”. There’s “not into it at all, but it would probably be okay once we get started.” – this will usually result in at least okay sex, but not always.
There’s also “I’m really, seriously, not into this right now, and the idea of sex makes me feel awful.” – you guys can think whatever you want about what’s “wrong” with someone who is feeling this way, but it’s real, and can have different causes – emotional disconnection, physical issues (not always obvious, even to the person experiencing them), extreme fatigue, whatever. Those reasons may not seem “real” to the person who wants sex, but they pretty much guarantee a bad sexual experience. WHY, if you care about somebody at all, do you want sex (especially sex with *you*) to be awful?
I’d also like to note that a lot of people (it might be an HDS thing, or it might be a guy thing – I’m not entirely sure) really believe that if they’re experiencing emotional distance, having sex will make it better. That *can* happen…but it can also go the other way around.
Almost 10 years ago, I had sex with my husband when we were feeling a bit distant (it was mostly a very high needs new baby thing – that one baby was harder than the other three combined – the baby was also still very little, and my hormones were all over the map). He seemed to really need it, and I love him. When it was over, I curled up and cried, and I felt like a whore. He got what he wanted, and felt closer to me…and I was feeling like a sex toy, with no value as a human being beyond the fact that I had all the basic female parts. He didn’t even *notice* until I started bawling, because we’d had sex, so things were great. He loved me, and he’d felt all that love and “shown” it to me…or something. He was feeling connected, and I was feeling completely and utterly alone. It was crushing…and it took months before sex felt right with him again – even when *I* was worked up. That all started with an attempt to be “naked and smiling”, and give him what he needed. It made *everything* about our sex lives more difficult and more complicated for a long time.
So, if it’s selfish of me to protect myself from ever feeling that way again, so be it. However, it also protects my husband, because I can guarantee that he didn’t feel very good about himself, either. He told me later that he felt like a rapist when I started crying. I also had to wonder how much love and bonding and all that is really involved if one partner can be feeling used and degraded, and the other can be feeling close, connected and loved.
And, I still don’t get why anybody wants sex with someone who doesn’t want it, let alone how that’s loving or bonding.
Wow – have you ever had a reading comprehension test? I’d say you failed.
When my health is good, my husband and I have sex *at least* 4-5 times per week. I like it that way. Sometimes, it moves up to once a day – sometimes more. When I’m going through a flare-up of my physical issues, that will usually drop to once, maybe twice, over a weekend or something. When the pain isn’t too bad, I’m also happy to add some manual and/or oral to that.
I’ve also been in a marriage where we had sex once in the last 10.5 months – and twice in the year before that. I left (for a lot of reasons).
The only times, in this marriage, when I haven’t wanted to have sex for any length of time have been the last few weeks of pregnancy, the first few weeks post-partum (when I actually want to a lot, but it’s too hard on the c-section incision), and during the year when my post-op nerve damage had screwed up my pelvis. (And, if you think it’s fun for *either* spouse to go through a situation where you both *want* it – lots of drive – but one of you is physically incapable of *enjoying* it, you’d be wrong. It was a nightmare)
The fact that I object to a few HDS posting as though their experiences are *the* HDS experience, and the fact that the author’s comments about “dangling treats” and random attack on my non-existent perfect life were offensive, do not, in any way, equate to me not wanting to have sex with my spouse. I don’t want to have “do it because you love me, even though you’re not into it – that’s not a reason” sex. I’m usually willing to give it a try, barring flareups of my health issues, but if I’m really, truly, not in the mood, it doesn’t work, and it certainly doesn’t make us closer.
Oh, yeah – and the author’s assertion that LDS *really* want to, but don’t realize it, and need to be shown the error of their ways by the HDS is…icky. Being the LDS doesn’t mean you don’t know when you want sex – it means it’s not always when the HDS wants it. If that works for him and his wife, that’s great – but it’s NOT a universal dynamic.
Anyway – this has been fun. I’ve got a gorgeous husband upstairs, and have much better things to do with my time than argue with people who don’t actually have a clue what I’m saying. You see, even the LDS likes to initiate sometimes…
Wow….ok I am going to go this route. Marriage is suppose to be each spouse serving the other. “The husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and the wife is to submit to her husband as to the Lord” ” 1 Corinthians 7:4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.” What the marriage bed and mission husband are trying to convey IS the biblical response. You are sitting here saying it is better for your spouse to suffer than you….that is selfish. The way you are putting it is….why should he not just suck it up….well because he can’t….just like the way you feel now you can’t just suck it up…but you would rather him suck it up and suffer through what you see as his problem than see sex as a loving act to help him with “his problem”, you would rather him suffer instead of you. And trust me as a HD wife I can tell you…we do suck it up A LOT!
I have been deeply saddened by the comments in this post, for it seems to me that things are not as they should be in many marriages. So why not go back to basics. The Word of God.
Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
(Mark 12:29-30 ESV)
With all of our being we should be loving the Lord our God. And in marriage how do we love?
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
(Ephesians 5:31-33 ESV)
Love and respect. In all aspects. they become one flesh.
During the comments the question “Whats the compromise when the thought of sex is “absolutely dreadful” with the answer “in the middle”. I think this is incomplete. I think the answer is “in the center – with God as the center”. WE meet where God desires us to met. How do we find that? Through prayer and reading his word. in meditating on his word day and night. And being humble enough to say “things are not right, show me Father what I need to change to make things better”. I think every person should pray this, even in a good/great marriage. Allow God change who WE are, and in that GOD often changes our spouse. it is not our job to change them. God is their (and our) TRUE father, brother, LORD, husband, and friend. We are a shadow of the true relationship he shows us. Let us strive to reflect the true relationship! not just in sex, but in every aspect.
Do you have the courage to met God in the center? to allow him to change you? Are you humble enough to admit something is wrong, and only he can fix it?
God blessings to you all.
P, those questions you pose at the end have been central in my own transformation. It isn’t about me or about my husband. It is about God.
Amen my sister in Christ! I have been reading your post, and it is quite inspiring as well. Thank you
Let’s not forget 1Corinthians 7. Do not refuse one another lest ye be tempted of the devil. Your bodies are not your own.
Hi Joe,
I did remember that one, and I think is very applicable. However from the comments, I felt another tact might bear more fruit, one that dealt with BOTH spouses not just LDS. As forgivenwife said, it isn’t about me or about my spouse. it is about God (change to be gender neutral). And I feel to overcome, that is where the focus needs to be at, in all things. Then I think 1 Cor 7 will truly start coming into play. God bless
The comments in this post are so sad – exposing so much anger, bitterness and selfishness. Matthew 12:34 “…out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”
Makes my heart hurt – for everyone. 😦
In 2 Corinthians 10:5, we’re told to “…take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” And, in Philippians 4:8 we’re told exactly what we are to spend our time thinking about: “…whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy–meditate on these things.”
Every marriage can be happier, more peaceful, and become God-honoring when every effort is spent on being a blessing and choosing to think good thoughts about your spouse (and about sex!). Make the choice to think about the “praiseworthy things”. It boils down to choice – choosing to think about what you “get to” do and seeing your spouse as an opportunity to serve the Lord and show love vs. choosing to think about what you “have to” do – seeing him/her as a burden.
Life is a vapor “that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.” ~ James 4:14. Choose to spend your life enjoying your spouse and your marriage. (If you need a place to start, perhaps pull out your wedding photos, reminisce about when you were dating, or put on some good country music!)
God is bigger than hormones, He is bigger than tiredness, He’s bigger than conflict, and he can give us eyes to see our spouse as He sees them. Ephesians 3:20, He ‘is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,”
Matthew 17:20 “…if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this [low desire] mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
Even when hormones aren’t cooperating to stir up desire, a LDS can still experience pleasure through happiness of heart knowing they were a blessing to their spouse by meeting a felt need. In “…the words the Lord Jesus himself: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”, Acts 20:35.
Here’s a challenge for all, commit to CHOOSING to think only positive thoughts about your spouse and about sex. And pray for your marriage, including your sex life.
For wives, here’s a 30-Day Husband Encouragement Challenge that would be a great help/starting place https://www.reviveourhearts.com/articles/30-day-husband-encouragement-challenge/ )
I also recommend the book Love & Respect by Emerson Eggerichs. (The premise: When a husband acts in an unloving manner, his wife will respond disrespectfully. When a wife is disrespectful, her husband will respond unlovingly… a ‘crazy cycle’ based on CONDITIONAL love and respect. Someone has to rise up and be mature, be the one to stop it – marriage is to be UNCONDITIONAL love and respect.)
Pride needs to be laid aside and in humility realize that no matter what imperfect state your marriage is in, it’s better than what you really deserve – which for all of us, is eternal punishment in hell.
“Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.” ~ Ephesians 5:33
“And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men” ~ Colossians 3:23
I read a post that was linked to from the marriage bed: http://unbrokenwoman.com/2012/09/bare-minimum/
I think it is a great perspective from a (former) NDS/LDS. It expresses some of the benefits of regular sex within marriage. I think she also had (and no longer needs) the attitude this author was saying when he said “naked and smiling”. Read her answers to the question “How do you get yourself in the mood and make a truly inviting and warm offer?” especially the second point. What started as something selfish for her God has turned into a real blessing for her. Now it seems she wouldn’t have it any other way.
Also read blogs like forgivenwife.wordpress.com/about/ and she is not the only exception of a spouse that has moved from a NDS/LDS to a giving spouse
Also wanted to say I understand where you are coming from Gerad, and thanks for sharing.
Lisa68 – I feel you are putting words in my mouth, and we are not getting anywhere. Let me make my point clearly, then I will drop out.
1) God intended us to want and enjoy sex.
2) When we do not want or enjoy it, something is wrong (I’m not talking about after a long day, I’m talking about an ongoing thing.)
3) When something is wrong, we should figure out what is wrong, and deal with it.
Wow, you’ve gotten a lot of negative comments for this one. I got a bunch of people offended too when I told wives that they shouldn’t control a couple’s sex lives by only having sex when they felt like it…fun times. Apparently, it’s a really bad thing to tell someone to serve their spouses in a sexual way, although we never get upset when someone talks about serving in a non-sexual way (without the emotions to back it up). I honestly think that if we are offended by being told to serve our spouse in a sexual way, then we are thinking about ourselves way too much. There is always a level of denying ourselves in every relationship – both for the HDS and the LDS, but for many people, it seems to be oppressive for the LDS to have to serve (sexually) unselfishly. I’m the LDS in our marriage and therefore not often “in the mood”, but I actually really enjoy simply giving my husband pleasure. It just makes me happy to see him happy. Most of the time, I end up enjoying it in the process but not always. Does he sacrifice his desires too sometimes, even when I don’t have a good excuse? Absolutely, and he never acts like a martyr about it either. Believers are called to unselfishly serve each other and I think that applies to a sexual relationship as well.
Wow, Elizabeth. Might be the best I’ve ever seen this principle worded. Amazing
Yeah, I guess I put up a doozie with this topic. Who knew?!
Thanks for the comment, and for not slashing my tires. 😉
Well, my last attempted post was greeted with the blue screen of death. Between that, and the subtle impact this blog and resulting comments are having on my attitude towards my husband and our sex life (not positive), I’d say it’s time to bow out. I have a healthy sex life that makes both of us happy, and I find the mindset here poisonous to that.
I think a lot of the “there’s so much bitterness” here remarks are addressed to me. To be clear:
1) I’ve been on *both* sides of this issue, which it doesn’t sound like most of you have. I’m not bitter. I’m simply very aware that spousal sex is *far* more complicated than these “five things” imply. (For the record, my HDS found this blog entry kind of…off, and I disagreed with a lot of it, despite having been the HDS for almost 10 years.)
2) I’m happily married to a man with a high libido, which is one of the reasons I fell for him in the first place.
3) Our sex life is great. When it goes through a rough patch, it’s because of health issues. I’m somewhat bitter about the health issues (some of them are iatrogenic), but not about my husband, sex, or our life together.
For those of you having issues, I wish you all the best of luck in resolving them. For those of you who aren’t…I’m truly happy for you, but please remember that what works for you, as a couple, won’t necessarily work for someone else.
Thanks for finally figuring out what should have been obvious from the beginning – not everything in blog posts applies to EVERYONE. Take what helps you, leave the rest, and go from there.
I’m not going to say it’s been fun, but it has been interesting. Interesting like a man with 3 arms.
I wish you and ur hubby the best!
No offense, but when you tilte a post with the “five things that [fill in blank] may never tell you”, it comes across as trying to give people the inside track on what’s going on with everyone in that situation. As I mentioned in another post – unless it was the one that got eaten – I tend to dissect things to death once I get engaged, which makes me sound *way* more wound up than I actually am. I think your title was probably my biggest issue in the first place.
hmm…I’ve never had it put quite like that, but I’m sure many have shared this sentiment over the years. My thought processes seem to have an unusual skid.
Likewise. While you and I are obviously quite different, we have some similarities…and I know that raising a bunch of kids in a small space is challenging, on all kinds of levels! All the best.
You are right about the double standard. My post for today (http://bit.ly/12j6I3G) says to server your wife, even if what she wants is something that you don’t really like, or want, and even if it costs you. I mentioned sex in passing, but that was not the focus, so no one is yelling about me being unreasonable.
Why is sex different? Why is it okay to expect sacrifice in any other area, but not when it comes to sex? Is this tendency why the Bible explicitly calls for sacrifice in the area of sex? What does it mean that despite that command, those who call for sacrificial giving in the area of sex are attacked and insulted?
Double standards always reveal something, and usually that something is ugly.
“Why is sex different? Why is it okay to expect sacrifice in any other area, but not when it comes to sex?”
Because for a woman, sex = surrender of your entire being. To do anything else for your husband, like make his favorite casserole, mow the lawn when he is sick, rub his back, etc. is not a complete surrender of your entire being. Do all wives surrender in all instances of sexual giving? No, and this is where you get the “not quite right” sense about a sexual encounter: the unloved feeling of husbands, and the resentment wives can feel from performing such an intimate act when they do not want to surrender for whatever reason. They know it is expected of them, and in a healthy, God-ordered marriage where the wife deeply admires and respects the husband and the husband tenderly loves and cherishes his wife, she would very much wish to surrender herself completely (barring any serious health concerns). But, in this fallen world it is hard to maintain that dynamic, which means there will be many times in a marriage where the wife needs give of herself in a sacrificial way to her husband sexually (sacrificial because she has no desire to surrender, and I agree with the blog author and the various commenters that suggest the wife learn how to do this, especially Christine’s comment). However, I think it is very good if the husband can understand exactly what she is giving, both when she is wanting to surrender to him, and when she does not want to and thus it is a dying to oneself! For a wife to do this… to give of herself sexually when she feels she cannot for whatever reason, is not unlike God allowing a martyr’s life to be taken. It should never, ever, be put on the same level as all the other things we do and give for each other. In that way, I understand what Lisa68 is trying to get across: the profound amount of sacrifice required of a woman to do this. Yes, we are called (both men and women) to give our lives completely over to the Lord, so all of us should be ready to die to ourselves in this way! So yes, wives must work on this… no excuse to keep themselves from the husband. And hopefully, if we read good blogs like Forgiven Wife’s, we can overcome the barriers that keep us from being willing and able to give ourselves to our husbands completely. In the meantime, it helps a lot of the husband does not treat such a gift as if it were as simple as rubbing a spouse’s feet.
Wow there are a lot of intense feelings about sex in marriage. I am going through a divorce right now that I don’t want and a big part of the reason is because of the issues of HDS and LDS. I was the HDS and my soon to be ex-wife was the LDS. I would have totally identified with this article and totally agreed with all the solutions. You see, I always thought if my wife would just understand me and try harder to connect with me sexually than everything would be so much better. I thought that what I needed was more sex but what I really needed was intimacy. This was also what my wife needed and desired as well. Sadly neither one of us knew how to communicate this need. So I communicated the need that I thought I needed because society told me that as the husband what I desired and needed was sex. This is something that the church also hasn’t quite grasped. The church never wants to talk about sex or intimacy. What I have learned about myself in these last 7 months of seperation is that I desire intimacy. This is broken down into three forms of intimacy. First spritual intimacy. Not having either emotional intimacy (which I was so confused about when I was married) or physical intimacy (I was equally confused about this but thought I wasn’t), has forced me to turn to the Lord. I realize that is where I should have started with in my marriage. When we come to God and really connect with Him in a real vibrant relationship, we realize that He is all we need. Then we can move into the next step of emotional intimacy with our spouse. God always wants to be first and overflood our lives with His presence to our spouse. Emotional intimacy is something that society says woman only need. This is a lie from the pit of hell. Men need it just as much as women. I know that I long to be known and desired for who I am not for what I do or don’t do. That is the longing I am seeing in these posts from the women on here who say they just feel like a sex toy for their husbands when he wants sex all the time. I think the man who wants sex multiple times a day is screaming for emotional intimacy. He wants to connect with his wife and be known by her and loved for who he is. The only way he has ever felt that connection is through sex. Believe me I know I lived it for 10 years. What he needs to do is learn to communicate how he feels. I know guys, this is so hard and scary but that is what emotional inimacy is all about. When he does that, then he connects with his wife, who most likely has been longing to connect with her husband in this way her whole marriage. Communicate, communicate, and communicate. Most of us think we have sexual problems in our marriage but what we really have is a “failure to communicate” (Sorry I couldn’t resist:)) When men come before the Lord and grow in spiritual intimacy, and become open and vulnerable towards their wives emotionally, then sexual intimacy becomes a lot less problamatic. I also believe that HDS spouses loose that desperate feeling that they have because a lot of that desperate feeling is taken care of in the emotional connection with their wives. Women who are in this type of relationship then begin to trust their husbands more and open up more in the area of sexual intimacy and expression. I believe this is how God designed it to be. Now satan will do whatever he can to thwart these steps and we need to be cognizant of this and battle him in these three areas. God did design men and women to have frequent sexual encounters in marriage and encourages that, but it never should be a chore just to complete or be demanded. That doesn’t fit with wives submitting to their husbands (Remember this is a picture of how the church is to submit to Christ, which isn’t as a doormat but out of a loving relationship that Christ gives the church), or the husband loving his wife as Christ loved the church (Wow guys try to justify badgering your wife for sex as the love and self sacrifice that Christ gave us on the cross). I grieve for my marriage that was lost because I didn’t realize this and saught to get my needs met. It wasn’t just the lack of sex or meaniful sex that did us in it was the bitterness and deperation in my own heart that helped do us in. Sorry to rant on and on but it just seems like both sides are kind of missing the point here in the comments and even in the original post. It doesn’t really have to do with a label of HDS or LDS but I believe everything has to do with those three levels of initmacy that I mentioned above.
Hi Ben. Well put. I think that was part of what i was alluding to in my comment. Except rurn to God and ask him, with alll humility what we are to do. Ask for him to show us how to serve our spouse. This could be a myriad of ways, and I think when we come to him, with humilty, truly seeking the answer, he will show us.
May Go bless you
P
realize that He is all we need.
If THAT is true, why did you even get married? Why did HE even bother to create it in the first place?
And don’t bother with the Genesis verse. It says right there that God wasn’t enough from the very beginning. Or are all of you forgetting the part about Adam walking with God himself in the garden. And God himself saying that it wasn’t good that Adam was alone. But he wasn’t, he was with God. So therefore doesn’t it follow that “something” wasn’t being fulfilled?
And I wonder how the being “fruitful and multiplying” was supposed to happen before Eve. Did he not care about this before? What if he had created BOTH of them from scratch, could this whole human disaster have been avoided? Did he want it to go all pear-shaped? Why only ONE son? And I like that he had enough sense to not saddle himself with a wife to have to try and figure out for the rest of eternity. HA!
Wow!. That’ll learn ya, dern ya. Seriously, if there is nothing else taken away from this post, we should all certainly see how much miscommunication and misunderstanding is going on between the sexes and how emotionally charged this issue can become in a marriage. As a Christian, I am supposed to believe in marriage as a convenant relationship and agreement. I must say though, I cannot ignore the possibility that on this one issue it is possible that a couple may me “unequally yoked” and better off spending their lives with someone else. It can be argued that sex and intimacy are not the same thing but they do have a congruent responsibility in maintaining a properly functioning marriage. If both needs are not being met to the desired degree as determined by the desiring partner, there will be a disconnect in the marriage and it will not have the necessary partnership aspect for it to thrive and survive. Sex and intimacy seem to allow for only so much compromise at either extreme before their limits are breached and animosity and contempt begin to destroy the relationship. This is about way more than “just do it,” which seem to be the overriding focus of a lot of bitterness and misunderstanding exhibited here. And not the true point of this post, I might add. Many people seem to picking what cherries they want to see and ignoring the rest on the tree.
And another thing. How many of you that are complaining about the insensitve remarks here have seen the two sex surveys this site and missionwife did? These people are trying their best to address the sexuality and intimacy issues. If you doubt that, I suggest you look at those surveys; but, more importantly, I suggest you look at the remarks posted by the survey respondents. There is much there for both men and women to consider. Many of the remarks cross over between both sexes while other’s are specific. A few are mentioned repeatedly and I would suspect those plead for immediate and consistent attention. To save any interested in searching:
SEX SURVEY MISSIONWIFE/HUSBAND LINKS
This is the original post of Sep 21 with links to the surveys for both men and women.
http://missionwife.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/sexual-satisfaction-survey-his-hers/
Survey results Pt. 3 Oct 26, 2012. These are the answers from the husband survey without the husband comments.
http://missionwife.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/numbers/
Survey results Pt. 2 Oct 11, 2012. These are the husband’s comments on the optional last question.
http://missionwife.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/sexual-satisfaction-survey-the-results-are-in-part-2/
Survey results Pt. 2 Oct 15, 2012 These are the same husband survey results but from his site with a female visitor comment.
https://missionhusband.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/number/
Survey results Pt. 1 Oct 10, 2012. These are the men’s optional answers taken from the missionwife site. I included it because of the very different comments than the one female poster on missionhusband with the same stats.
http://missionwife.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/the-results-are-in/
Survey results Pt. 1 Oct 10, 2012
What our wives wish they could tell us. This is the very lengthy optional remarks made by the wives. You will notice my dismay about the lack of reaction to the page and data.
https://missionhusband.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/sexsurveycomments/
I realize there is repetition of data here, but I included all posts because of the differing comments on his and her sites. Your perspective concerning insensitivity my moderate after reading them. The comments of both side are sadly revealing, especially when you realize they are being spoken to total strangers who have no dog in the commenters personal fight.
Very well written article. Well thought out. I think you nail many of the issues. I wonder if we as a society are having more problems with this issue now or are we just really beginning to talk about it? Probably the later, but the numbers I see on Sexless Marriages scare me. God gave us a beautiful gift in married sex, it is so sad that in many marriages the sex is seldom and probably cold.
Sex should never be the center of a marriage, but when a HDS is denied by a LDS, it becomes the focal point for conflict.
I think some dynamics need further examination.
If facial expressions and body language of the HDS are sending the message of expecting sex and not an interest in intimacy with the other person, it is a sexual turn off to the LDS. Now the LDS is trying to turn themself on against the flood of the HDS turning them more and more off. It creates a mental twisting, and anguish.
It can often feel like there is no gratitude for being allowed to see us naked, touch us in the most private ways. It feels like it’s just a given that we share these things with you, and we better start doing it more often. Show us that you are worthy to see and touch us this way. Help it to be something that we WANT.
It’s really hard to want sex when you feel like you have no choice in the matter.
I propose the person who wants sex should be the one who makes it appealing to the one that hadn’t thought of having sex at this moment yet. I propose it is the turned on person’s job to coax the sex drive of the other person and not to coax the guilt trip or duty bound feelings in the other person. A LDS can often be drawn in, turned on, excited. Help them. Work with them. Lift them up. Don’t turn them off and them blame them for being uninterested in sex!! You want it, why should I have to be the one working for it when you are doing nothing!!??? Not fair.
Why should the LDS have to wear sexy clothes and say sexy things and be naked and smiling. It should be the HDS that is naked and smiling, saying sexually exciting things to TURN ON the one that is not yet turned on.
Yes it is normal to feel abused when you are expected to turn someone on and satisfy them when you are being given nothing in return. No understanding, no establishing the moment to be emotionally safe before demanding we get completely naked.
The problem with taking this stance, is that it ignores the very real responsibility that goes along with your part in a marriage. Granted, one should not just become a doormat for their partner to take advantage of all the time, but you must realize that you are Biblically mandated to be the steward of your partner’s body, when you enter into marriage. There is a big responsibility that goes along with entering in to a marriage, and if one is not prepared to accept that responsibility, then one should simply not get married yet. It’s not enough to just get married, and then complain about (and ultimately abdicate) your responsibility that is then laid on you to take care of your partner! In entering into this sacred pact, you accept that responsibility.
Now of course that works both ways, and your partner is the steward of your body as well – so it can’t just be a take-take-take relationship, as that is obviously not good for the LDS’s body and mind either. There has to be compromise, on both sides. And that’s exactly what the article emphasizes, is compromise.
I also believe it is misguided to think that it is the HDS’s responsibility to do all the work. Each person in a marriage has responsibility for their role. If there is a real physical or psychological impairment of some sort that is artificially lowering the LDS’s sex drive, then both the HDS and LDS should be working together to try to fix that. It should be a partnership that is acknowledged and worked through, together. But to just lay the responsibility on the HDS to drag the LDS, essentially kicking and screaming, to fulfil their responsibility, isn’t attractive to the HDS either. The HDS wants to feel wanted, too – they want someone that actually wants them. And if the HDS is the one who has to constantly initiate, to do a song and dance to bring any sexual interest out of the LDS at all, and then on top of that should have to be GRATEFUL that the LDS gave the HDS the PRIVILEGE of having sex with them, that is entirely unbalanced, and not fair.
Obviously one should be grateful for their spouse, in general. God brought you together with someone willing to share their life with you, so in this respect it is entirely appropriate to be grateful both to God and to your spouse. But in the context of what you are saying, it sounds as though the HDS should be grateful any time the LDS even permits them to have sex with them, or to see them naked even. This attitude mirrors very closely to the attitude that sex is something that is then earned from the LDS, and when it is given, the HDS should be grateful. And that is something entirely different, and 100% contradicts what the Bible says about sex. Sex is not a reward that is given for good behaviour, it is not a treat given to a puppy, it is not a power grab that the LDS can use to manipulate the HDS. Sex is a gift from God that is to be shared and cherished in the context of marriage, and each spouse has the Biblically mandated responsibility to treat their spouse’s body as sacred, and to take care of it – and a good healthy sex life is a big part of that.
I want to reiterate that I am not saying that the LDS should just turn into a doormat. Obviously there are some HDS out there who will abuse and twist this concept into forcing the LDS into just taking care of the HDS, with no thought to the well being of the LDS. But all things being equal, if the HDS is respectful and mindful of the needs of the LDS, a compromise must be reached.
And before I get thrashed too badly, take a look at https://missionwife.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/withholding_sex_is_it_that_bad/
I think this gives a great perspective of the LDS, with respect to what I just talked about. And it has some very realistic conclusions, some that may be unwelcome at first, but I think with some deep thought, could really be helpful with understanding the whole picture.
“The problem with taking this stance, is that it ignores the very real responsibility that goes along with your part in a marriage.”
You are saying you disagree with me?
So you are saying that it is the responsibility of the LDS to constantly turn on the HDS with sexy clothes, sexy moves and sexy talk while the HDS should not ever wear sexy clothes, flirt, or try to turn on the LDS??!! How is that responsible and fair?
I’m saying that it is no one person’s responsibility to do that! I’m saying that this is a team effort. Both spouses are the steward for their partner’s body, so it’s about compromise! And our stewardship of eachother’s body is to work in harmony.
So while obviously it’s not OK that the HDS just more or less rape the LDS all the time, the flip side of that is ALSO not ok, that the LDS withhold sex all the time from the HDS. There HAS to be a compromise. And that is implicit with the Biblical command to be the stewards of each others body.
I can agree with that completely.
My perspective sees many HDS men requesting, demanding, pouting that the women don’t come at them full force all the time, wearing lingerie, initiating sex. The women have taken this on as a chore to never forget to do. They are miserable. They feel raped. They want to be excited too. They have needs too. I think it would help men if they tried a little harder to turn on the wife instead of asking for sex like a business deal. I was coming from the opposite side of this coin. Obviously we would like some help from the other spouse if we feel like we are holding it all up by ourselves.
Amen
And I totally agree with you on that 🙂 If you are in a scenario in which the HDS is not cognizant and sensitive to the LDS needs and condition, then absolutely, what I was saying before can’t come to fruition until that piece is there. There has to be balance. I guess I am approaching this from the same angle the person who emailed in to mission wife did. I am a normal guy, who (from my perspective at least) treats my wife with respect and dignity, and I am very cognizant and sensitive to her needs, but I feel as he did, where I’m almost paralyzed to inaction sometimes, because of the imbalance in our marriage.
If you didn’t read the link I posted before, I beg you to 🙂 because the first time I read it, I almost wept because of how closely it described my own marriage. Here it is again:
https://missionwife.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/withholding_sex_is_it_that_bad/
I pray that your spouse takes a deep look at himself and starts to take his commitment to marriage with you seriously. All too often this HDS/LDS disconnect causes so much strife, and it more often than not leads to irreconcilable resentment in a marriage.
I totally relate! I have a way higher sex drive than my husband and it is beyond frustrating! I grew up in a family that was open about sexuality, I was taught no shame. I don’t know how much that plays into it but I feel it has a role. I have never experienced sexual rejection to the extent my husband has given me. He feels my self-esteem is reliant on his desire or lack of. I’m so confused! Men express desire regularly to me and my husband does not. He say Lsd but then, I’m able to see his lustful face when he encounters a beautiful women. He says I have no idea what I’m talking about, I’m his wife his lust was apparent until he put a ring on my finger and married me. Is it Lsd or the grass is greener over there. With his wife he could have anything that was his sexual desire and doesn’t seem to care. I definately feel this is my gift to him, to both of us. I have had sex when he wanted and afterward felt aweful because I was doing it knowing, I have no idea when I will get a chance to feel that close to him again. I would have sex at least once a day if i could and prior to him went with out for three years after my first husband. 100% of the time it is with intimacy and love that I desire it. I have tried to turn it down, off whatever. It feels like I’m turning off desire and love for my partner because he will reject me, how is that possibly a health statment for either of us?!!
It’s not healthy for either of you to feel this way.
There needs to be a good line of communication between the two of you about how you BOTH feel emotionally, spiritually and physically.
The communication will help resolve your issues. If communication is not possible then counseling is needed. Best wishes and luck your way.
My husband and I have sex 3 times a week…it’s something we agreed to when we started dating 1.5 yrs ago. Now he says 3 times a week is not enough, he says he wishes I would initiate sex more and the only reason he agreed to 3x’s a wk is because he figured that’s what I could handle. Now he wants it 4 or more times a wk and for us to do it twice a day sometimes. I feel i have a Mid-sex drive…it’s certainly not low doing it 3x’s a wk. We argue every week about our sex life and I’m feeling I’ll never be able to please him sexually. He refuses to pleasure himself because he has me, his wife to do that… I’m tired of arguing what should I do?
Does he use porn at all?
1. Buy one of those male masturbation machines and hold it on their for him.
2. Communicate find something that works well for you both.
3. If communication is not possible see counseling.
Best wishes and good luck
Okay, this may irate all the LD women out there, but this article was SPOT ON! Kudos to the author. I’m the HDS in our marriage, and even though I’m female, yeah, this article expresses my feelings exactly. Rejection, hurt, the withdrawing away from a spouse after so much rejection…. This is not a “male” thing. Ladies, I do understand the feeling of being “used” for sex because I have felt that many times in my messed-up marriage…where I have been treated poorly by my husband and then expected to “deliver.” But sometimes you need to wrap your mind around something other than your own needs and desires, and realize that this is a way to minister to your husbands and actually helps improve your marriage. Being HD is extremely hard! And no, I don’t look at porn. For the husbands out there, you would be getting a lot more of your needs met if you spent the time ministering to your wives in other ways (caring for her emotionally, listening to her soul, supporting her). Spend the other hours of the day reaching out to her, and most of the time she wont be grudging on your needed time.
Ladies, you can balk at the idea that sex is a VITAL way of connecting in marriage and IS necessary in a marital relationship (yes, necessary!) but it doesn’t change the fact!
Yes sex is necessary in marriage. And if the HD partner would spend as much time on arousing their partner emotionally then their partner would be more willing to connect physically. You use different words but the meaning was the same. Well said Thank You from the LD partner.
Very interesting and very helpful thank you
Wow!. That describes my marriage completely. My wife is so wonderful and sweet. She does so much for me, but my high sex drive, and her frustration with it is destroying our marriage. 2 days ago I actually joined a hookup site and fantasized about getting together with another woman just for sex.
This would devastate our marriage and I don’t really want to cheat on my wife, but I feel like I’m going crazy and my wife doesn’t care about my serial needs. I may try to share this article with her. It’s good to know I’m not a freak or alone.
You’re not a freak and you’re not alone. Rather than cheat and be labeled a cheater. Try talking to her about it. She won’t listen and she won’t compromise seek counseling . You said she’s very sweet, and by your words makes you sound like you truly love her. If this is true then you shouldn’t let your marriage Fall Apart. Communicate work as a team and seek counseling if needed. Best wishes and luck your way.
Im the higher sex drive in my relationship and you fail to realize yes the lower sex drive can be murderous to me. Rejection is like having the heart sqashed infront of you but neither the naked and smiling or the lower sex drive suck it up to the hd person are good answers. Look for me yes i argue because i need it but i also know the LSD has a right to say no and if they just please you then that doesnt help them. Compromise is key maybe LSD would be okay with once a month b uh t HD wants 5 per week. Guess what find a medium whsre you both can live with it like 1 time a week ect. Im not saying its perfect but its better then telling the other to roll over and take it.
Well said.
When I was pregnant something happened and I had NO sex drive. It was AWFUL and it was so scary. I was worried that I would never want sex again. The thought of sex was repulsive during that time. It wasn’t just like I wasn’t up for it.
I have a new compassion for the LDS. I think they really need prayer and healing, because whatever was causing that in me, put so much guilt, anxiety and pressure on me that I felt HORRIBLE. Yet not horrible enough to force myself to enjoy or passionately involve myself in an act that repulsed me.
There is something very hormonal about a drive. And when it is viewed like a “choice” or a preference, it devalues the LDS and what they are going through. Thank you Jesus that my hormones regulated.
Sex is such a beautiful, REWARDING, and intimate necessity in a marriage that we should stop trying to make it make sense and start praying for those who are being robbed of it. Both the HDS and the LDS.
Amen to that. Compromise is key.
Yes. My husband and I started out as equally matched sex drives. It wasn’t children that drove my drive down (we waited 7 years to have our first child). It was him acting as if he lived in a hotel and the hotel owner (me) also needed to meet his sexual needs. I often did but it did NOTHING to bring me closer to him. I felt used. I was so incredibly tempted to tell him to go find a prostitute because that was how I felt.
We are in a fabulous place now and now we’re equally matched again, with regard to sex drives.
Having sex with someone whom you don’t feel close to actually can cause you to have an aversion to sex.
There is a huge difference between that and having a fantastic relationship but just not being in the mood at any particular time.
I’m the HD wife which is horrible. A woman getting rejected for sex over and over kills your self esteem. My LD husband had health issues he doesn’t address, and makes me feel like a piece of crap. I’d kill for a HD mate. LD women should have my husband. I’ll trade.
Food for thought, make what you will of it…..from: http://www.dictionary.com
“Rape
Noun
1. An unlawful intercourse or any other sexual penetration of vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without Force, buy a sexual organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.”
“WITH OR WITHOUT FORCE” no means NO. I’ve read a few posts on here that say repeatedly, “sex brings marriage together”.
GOD and EMOTION brings marriage together SEX is the side effect.
Sex and emotion SHOULD go together, but REMEMBER is was emotion that started it all. Marriage is a partnership and should never be one-sided. NO SINGLE PERSON IS IN CHARGE OF SEX. Yes , in a marriage you have vowed to take care of that other person, to be SEXUALY only with them for the REST OF YOUR LIFE . You ALSO VOWED to honor ,love and cherish that person. To take care of them” in sickness AND IN HEALTH” this means you must take care of them emotionally as well as sexually. You cannot expect a partner to take care of you sexually if you are not taking care of them emotionally. It is a partnership, a marriage, no ONE in the relationship should be the dictator.
Emotion does not equal sex!
Sex does not equal emotion!
Sex and emotion can be combined, but NEVER should be confused as the thing.
Your partner may have a HIGH sex drive.
your partner may have a LOW sex drive.
BOTH PARTNERS MUST COMUNICATE!!!! You must act like a team, and work TOGETHER! NOT JUST YOU, NOT JUST THEM. Communication is a problem at this time, then take some time apart to reevaluate your life goals,and seek counseling.
Marriage should NEVER be one sided. It is a partnership. It takes TWO to have a marriage, you are a TEAM. Again, ” NO SINGLE PERSON IS IN CHARGE OF SEX”
My husband and I finally sat down and had this conversation. He was not HSD until after we were wed. We do not schedual sex. We have agreed on a number per week that is comfortable for both of us. Should we both be willing and want to do it more than that then we will. However never more than the other is comfortable with. This is working well for us.
I am an HSD wife, My husband got weird-ed out by the mere idea of a baby being in my uterus so once we started trying for a baby six years ago we’ve struggled to every have sex. Before that we both had HSD and had sex everyday. So fast forward 2 kids later we have had sex once a year for the last 6 years. I’m loosing weight 15lbs gone 15lbs more to go of baby weight and he still isn’t interested. I’m going to mention a sex schedule is once a week to ambitious?. I think we are going to pursue counseling and he definitely needs a check up at dr’s for low T, if he’ll go. Do you guys have any other ideas to help while I am waiting for everything to come together?
My husband, like many men, wake up in the morning and they want sex. Every morning I wake up between 3:30 and 4:30am to him pulling at my pj’s or groping etc..and a few times a week I will accept the advances. We have had countless conversations about our differing libidos and he has even mentioned he should see a doctor because he feels like there is something wrong with him. I quickly tell him that’s not the case and it’s not necessary as he’s still under 35! What is frustrating to me is him wanting sex as soon as he gets home from work, before dinner, after dinner, before bed even if we had already had it earlier in the day. We have 2 kids under 7, we’re busy! Every text is sexual during the day. I feel mentally exhausted because I do play along, help him work his frustrations out on himself, etc. and I feel like it’s never enough which leads to the feeling like I’m not enough. I know he has a high sex drive and I do accept that, but on the other hand I feel unattached to him emotionally. I can’t remember the last time he asked me about my day before he starts his sales pitch for sex. It does kind of feel like that sometimes…a sales pitch. It’s been an issue for a few years now and we can never find that even, right in the middle solution. One of us always ends up feeling like we are sacrificing too much of who we are. We are dedicated together to work it out, but if anyone has any advice, I would greatly appreciate it!
Sorry, but low sexual drive in a human being is a disorder. Period. If you are low drive then there IS something wrong with you. It’s a medical problem, not a relationship one. And it’s a medical problem that many low drive partners obstinately insist on not getting diagnosed or treated. Which shows a failure of love for themselves and for their functional libido partners. If you’re “low drive” because your partner is an ugly loser, then your problem isn’t your drive, it’s needing to change partners. But if your partner is hot, then….. Wazzzup? So many issues can affect sex drive; low testosterone, sleep apnea, SSRI’s, thyroid & hormone imbalances; the list goes on and on. See a doctor, get tests, get treatment. Then see a therapist to work through your psychological negativity about sex. Regular/daily sexual activity is healthy for your body, brain, and relationships. Don’t miss out on a full and vital life. Not for your partner, but for you.
I really needs to see this being in the one with the high sex drive. It help me understand myself more cause I really felt those emotions when being rejected which happens quite often and was even told that i needed to find someone else to have sex with In which I’m not interested in doing I am highly turned on by my spouse!!!!! I can’t help it but again Thanks for this article!!!
Omg, this was an amazing read for me! Totally made me see my husbands side! This is a real thing, now I know I’m not just married to a 51 year old horn dog! Thank you for sharing this information.
How about you suck it up and not tell me to stand there and take it with A smile on my face?? Maybe?
Encouragung maintenence sex.
I have been on noth sides of this dynamic.
What is it about how someone can turn me on and then another whom I love just feels like a chore.
Now being the LSD I strongly diagree with the maintain and put out with a smile even your not feeling it. Makes me feel used and unheard or unseen. A damn piece of meat. Cant even smell good or the hungry wanta to devour. And better not wear that sexy dress because you will ne invaided regularly. Being with someone with a higher sex drive than me makes me thung they treat orgasm like a drug. It is aelf serving chemical release and has absolutely nothung to dobwith connection and love, rather his NEED to have that ego stroked or the NEED for release. Maybe I am biased here because when I firat met my husband he was different. Then he started taking adderal and he has turned my office bathroom into jack-off room. Now I wake uo to him masterbating in the bed next to me often and i cant even look hood without dighting off a dog. Yea my jusgment is harsh but it is a result of amphetamine. Not natural.
I can look back and recognize when pregnant and afterwards with my chikdren the hirmones had a great effect on my desire. That and being busy. But I always bounced back to my average desire with my ex husband. Not sure if it was that man and the 12 years of comfort and my new husband is different and has not been enough years or what.
Just seems so selfish and insecure to nees it so much. Like he doesnt have any passion or drive with goals to thunk about. Instead it is just sex sex sex. Annoying. … and yes we talk about it often. I am more kinky than him. If it is not interested sex i check out mentally. So it goes.
For the firat time i have considered cheatung just to find someone that gets me sexually instead of warding off a dog constantly.